Thursday, October 6, 2022

Entryism and the University

Walter E. Block, "Isn't it strange that some of the smartest people are socialists?"
Isn't it strange that some of the smartest people in our society are socialists?

Albert Einstein was no dummy; if there were a contest for the brainiest man who ever lived, he might be not only a contender, but the winner. Noam Chomsky made important contributions to linguistics; he didn't just limit himself to parsing sentences. Bernie Sanders is an intelligent man. You don't get to be a U.S. senator if you have nothing at all upstairs.

This is just the tip of the iceberg of the list of very bright individuals who are lefties, many of whom have made important contributions to science and mathematics. Others include Stephen Jay Gould, Peter Kropotkin, Richard Levins, Richard Lewontin, John Rawls, and Bertrand Russell.

In addition to mentioning specific names, the case that the "best and brightest" of us are oriented in a socialist direction can also be made in a macro manner. Although no evidence is available to demonstrate this, it is reasonable to speculate that the educational credentials (e.g., Ph.D.s) of people in the blue and coastal states are higher than those in the red states. (Apart from the University of Chicago, most of our prestigious universities are located on our two coasts). Ashkenazi Jews have the reputation of being very smart, yet they overwhelmingly vote Democrat. It is quite possible that university professors, particularly at the elite schools; journalists; and clergy are more credentialed on average than plumbers, carpenters, and mechanics — and are also much more likely to be in thrall to socialist nostrums.

Even economists, economics being one of the most free-enterprise disciplines in the academy, are biased in a leftward direction, albeit to a lesser degree than their colleagues in sociology, anthropology, history, philosophy, and black-queer-feminist "studies."

This is more than passing curious because whenever socialism has been tried, it has been a dismal failure — not only economically, but also in terms of the number of innocent people killed. This stretches all the way from the national socialism of Hitler and the Nazis to the international socialism of communists Stalin, Mao, and Pol Pot. In addition, we have on record two examples that constitute almost double-blind controlled experiments testing this claim: East and West Germany, North and South Korea. These peoples had in common the same two languages, cultures, histories, presumably intelligence levels. They were alike in any other dimension anyone would care to mention. They were separated solely by an adventitious act of war. One member of each of these pairs adopted a communist economic system, the other something more akin to capitalism. The subsequent migration patterns told the tale: virtually no one was trying to get into East Germany or North Korea. The traffic was almost entirely in the other directions, despite the mortal risk.

How can we explain this pattern? Hayek accounts for this correlation because the very intelligent people who favor laissez-faire capitalism have more opportunities outside academia, in the corporate and financial worlds. But this explains only why universities are leftist playgrounds. It ignores the fact that businesses, too, are now overrun by the politically correct. Schumpeter's explanation is that this imbalance stems from the fact that intellectuals have little or no business experience. This account, too, is vulnerable to the objection that the modern-day corporate world is now also a bastion of lefties.

Other elucidations include government subsidies for higher education: the G.I. bill; massive student "loans"; the fact that even private colleges attain immense funding, let alone the public ones; the alphabet soup of government agencies that hire highly credentialled college graduates, such as the National Science Foundation, the National Institutes of Health, the National Endowment for the Humanities, the USDA, the Federal Reserve System, etc. But what explains this system in the first place?

In my view, each of these explanations uncovers a part of the truth. However, I see Milton Friedman's contribution as one of the best. He claimed that the rise of leftism at universities stemmed from the U.S. policy during Vietnam war of exempting people in college from the draft. Leftists took advantage of this program to a far greater degree than rightists, and the former are now the leaders not only of academia, but of almost all of our more influential institutions. And why, in turn, was this policy instituted? It may well be that this was almost accidental and non-ideological — merely support for education per se.

I am tempted to say that these socialist intellectuals are "too smart for their own good." But this is not quite true. Their leaders, at least, make out like bandits compared to how they would prosper in a purely free-enterprise system.

109 comments:

Q said...

\\But this explains only why universities are leftist playgrounds. It ignores the fact that businesses, too, are now overrun by the politically correct.

Because they want power?

Well, I know, I need to elaborate.

Blue Dream of any business -- to have customers who do not complain and/or vendor-locked.

Monopoly.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

It goes a bit deeper, IMO. After the 1960's, with all the protests at Universities, the faculties granted many "concessions" to the Leftist students, one of which involved the Western core curriculum in favor of diversity and multiculturalism. It might not have proven a bad thing had this been requirements for study in "addition" to the Western core, but unfortunately, it was not. The core was dropped (considered "racist"), and nothing replaced it. Eventually, Leftist professors came to dominate the universities, and their thoughts and ideologies given "preference". This also led to a new form of capitalism, "cultural capitalism" that catered to organic, vegan, ESG corporate mentality, with corresponding tax exemptions and subsidies for "hippie" products. The educated elites have become out of touch with the "common" Main Street America, as they considered the "old" companies like oil/gas/steel to be "evil" planet-destroying enterprises.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

A once "neutral" Economic arena has become a partisan "moral" battleground that imposes the standards of ethics and social norms of the wealthy educated/ indoctrinated class upon the poor and middle classes and "outlaws" cheaper or less costly alternatives in the name of "safety" and/ or "ecologic preservation".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Take automobiles. Seat belt, air bags, crash test survivability, mpg standards of efficiency, pollution levels, electric propulsion... all increase cost/ price.

Q said...

\\Blogger -FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...
It goes a bit deeper, IMO. After the 1960's...

That is just a phenomenology. With opinionated salt over it...


\\Blogger -FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...
A once "neutral" Economic arena...

Ehm? And when it was neutral??? :-)))

Marx and Engels got it upside down -- culture defines economy, and not vise versa.


\\Blogger -FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...
Take automobiles. Seat belt, air bags, crash test survivability, mpg standards of efficiency, pollution levels, electric propulsion... all increase cost/ price.

Yeah. You are not technologist. Now it is obvious.

Joe Conservative said...

Marx and Engels got it upside down -- culture defines economy, and not vise versa.

...an interesting thought...


"Culture is, before all things, the unity of artistic style, in every expression of the life of a people." - Nietzsche

“Culture” is the name for all those things we practice without really believing in them, without taking them quite seriously." - Slavoj Zizek

"Religion is the mother of culture". –René Girard

Cult-ure

Ralph Waldo Emerson, On "Culture":
"Can rules or tutors educate
The semigod whom we await?
He must be musical,
Tremulous, impressional,
Alive to gentle influence
Of landscape and of sky,
And tender to the spirit-touch
Of man's or maiden's eye:
But, to his native centre fast,
Shall into Future fuse the Past,
And the world's flowing fates
in his own mould recast.
"

Joe Conservative said...

Yeah. You are not technologist. Now it is obvious.

No, I'm a "progressive".

"If man wants to progress, he must create new forms of energy of greater and greater densities."--Lazare Carnot

Joe Conservative said...

A radical progressive.

Joe Conservative said...

My uncle's father...

Q said...

\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
Yeah. You are not technologist. Now it is obvious.

\\No, I'm a "progressive".

\\"If man wants to progress, he must create new forms of energy of greater and greater densities."--Lazare Carnot


That is perpendicular cathegories. ;-)

And well, instead of rising dencity one can rise efficiency. ;-)


\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
Marx and Engels got it upside down -- culture defines economy, and not vise versa.

\\...an interesting thought...

Obvious.
Bushmans do not know Capitalism. It is incomprehensible for them.

Joe Conservative said...

one can rise efficiency.

No thank you. I prefer small, inefficient, and anti-fragile.

Joe Conservative said...

...something a little more 3rd wave.

Joe Conservative said...

I suspect that it's also the availability of energy and other resources that define the economy and how the "culture" adapts to best exploit them.

Joe Conservative said...

...especially since now with cheap computer, we have ready access to the information and intelligence necessary to exploit them.

Q said...

Computers still are too uneffective and too powerhungry.
There'd be NO Progress this way. Only New Dark Age. Especially when oil gone.

Joe Conservative said...

'greater energy densities'. Nuclear.

Oil 'gone'? Please.

Q said...

\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
'greater energy densities'. Nuclear.

Wanna shine bright at night? ;-P

Joe Conservative said...

For a very short time I worked at APGEA. The preferred approach for destroying the chemical weapons stored and developed there was incineration. This was done for many of the toxic nerve agents. But when it came to Mustard Gas, they developed a process of chemical neutralization without incineration.

Technology advances.

I also worked on a proposal for a project to decontaminate and remediate Pit-9 at INEL. Another to operate Savannah River National Labs.

I can now drive to Three Mile Island in less than a hour. I grew up an hour from Lawrence Livermore Labs. A half hour from the Stanford linear accelerator.

I am not afraid of "glowing".

Joe Conservative said...

...at worst, we can go back to dumping our mistakes off the Farallon Islands outside of SF Bay. ;)

Q said...

Well, Nature could favour yet one Mass Extinction. (yawn)

Whoever be after us, maybe would be more wise...

Joe Conservative said...

I wouldn't count on it.

Q said...

Sorry. Apparently it's still too early for me to be sure my mood and style would be apparent in text. :-(((

On a good side, hardly there is chempiones in this discipline.
Still, that is reciveing side right to assess.

Joe Conservative said...

My brother "minored" in Nuclear Engineering. He used to install reactors in submarines at Electric Boat in Groton. We both went to the same school and both became marine engineers. He retired a few years ago from what was formerly Ingersoll-Rand marketing their pumps for many applications, including nuclear.

Q said...

Well... that nuclear is not new and edgy tech anymore.

It more like steam engine. Well, most part of it. And nearly same inefficient. ;-P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

More efficient than wind or solar... and now available in smaller and more reliable energy delivery packages.

Q said...

Available? Well, terrorists who would like to use nuclear... would be pleased to buy that "smaller and more reliable energy delivery packages". ;-P

And how do you calculate efficiency? Show your formulas and numbers.

On the very surface -- wind and solar have only costs of production/instalation... well, plus recycling if you wish.

NO constant flow of fuel needed.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

constant flow of fuel?

Efficiency?

Size matters.

Need an RTG?

Q said...

That is all old known talks.

Still, wind and Sun is here.

While your mini-reactors. "...is out there".

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Is it? Those reactors on US submarines and CVN's don't come from nowhere. They're made in Savannah River.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...and NASA still uses RTG's, even though they fear launch losses.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

...although they are still a bit pricey. :(

Joe Conservative said...

:P

Q said...

\\Is it? Those reactors on US submarines and CVN's don't come from nowhere.

And? Any housewife able to use em like that stove?

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

lol!

No, but when a hurricane strikes some small island, an SSN can pull in and power the island's entire remaining power grid.

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:P

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

:)

Q said...

I know that attitude.

In soviet times there was ideas about making nuclear planes, locomotives... and even autos.
Well, that was ideas from USA, of course.

Why do you think we still do not have planes with nuclear propulsion?
Cars? ;-)
Your answer?

Joe Conservative said...

Fear, of course. Fear of contamination. Fear of dirty bombs.

It's dangerous, and it still takes a great deal of "expertise" to safely use and apply it. But that doesn't me that we can't. We need energy sources of greater densities. High energy storage devices. Graphene batteries/ capacitors to store the energy produced safely or create/ transform into different fuel types like hydrogen.

Joe Conservative said...

:P

Q said...

\\We need energy sources of greater densities.

Simple pragmatism.

Let's assume that you recieved it. That "energy source of greater densities"
What would you do NEXT? ;-P

What NEXT "energy source of greater densities" you see? Black Holes? ;-P

Question is WHY??? For what purpose???

You can set it back. But NOT avoid.

That is what Lem propheted too. ;-P

Joe Conservative said...

What would I do with it? Shut up all the "carbon-CO2" freaks destroying our economy with solar panels and windmills. Build Flying cars. Auto-piloted Drones. Warp drives. Robot armies. Do metallurgy/ alchemy experiments in my garage with my cyclotron? Dig a tunnel to the center of the Earth... whatever I wished. Welcome to Trantor. Everything is possible. Unlimited energy.

Q said...

Not what. WHY?

And well... that is NOT Energy, that limiting us today.

Joe Conservative said...

I told you why... "idiots destroying the country".

NOT Energy, that limiting us today.

Tell that to the German's in two months...

Joe Conservative said...

Nietzsche, WtP 1067 (1885)

And do you know what "the world" is to me? Shall I show it to you in my mirror? This world: a monster of energy, without beginning, without end; a firm, iron magnitude of force that does not grow bigger or smaller, that does not expend itself but only transforms itself; as a whole, of unalterable size, a household without expenses or losses, but likewise without increase or income; enclosed by "nothingness" as by a boundary; not something blurry or wasted, not something endlessly extended, but set in a definite space as a definite force, and not a sphere that might be "empty" here or there, but rather as force throughout, as a play of forces and waves of forces, at the same time one and many, increasing here and at the same time decreasing there; a sea of forces flowing and rushing together, eternally changing, eternally flooding back, with tremendous years of recurrence, with an ebb and a flood of its forms; out of the simplest forms striving toward the most complex, out of the stillest, most rigid, coldest forms toward the hottest, most turbulent, most self-contradictory, and then again returning home to the simple out of this abundance, out of the play of contradictions back to the joy of concord, still affirming itself in this uniformity of its courses and its years, blessing itself as that which must return eternally, as a becoming that knows no satiety, no disgust, no weariness: this, my Dionysian world of the eternally self-creating, the eternally self-destroying, this mystery world of the twofold voluptuous delight, my "beyond good and evil," without goal, unless the joy of the circle is itself a goal; without will, unless a ring feels good will toward itself--do you want a name for this world? A solution for all its riddles? A light for you, too, you best-concealed, strongest, most intrepid, most midnightly men?-- This world is the will to power--and nothing besides! And you yourselves are also this will to power--and nothing besides!

Joe Conservative said...

...are you saying that all we REALLY need is a "will to power", but no power? lol!

Shakespeare, "Hamlet", Act IV Sc iv

How all occasions do inform against me
And spur my dull revenge. What is a man
If his chief good and market of his time
Be but to sleep and feed? A beast, no more.
Sure He that made us with such large discourse,
Looking before and after, gave us not
That capability and godlike reason
To fust in us unused. Now whether it be
Bestial oblivion or some craven scruple
Of thinking too precisely on th’ event
(A thought which, quartered, hath but one part
wisdom
And ever three parts coward), I do not know
Why yet I live to say “This thing’s to do,”
Sith I have cause, and will, and strength, and means
To do ’t. Examples gross as Earth exhort me:
Witness this army of such mass and charge,
Led by a delicate and tender prince,
Whose spirit with divine ambition puffed
Makes mouths at the invisible event,
Exposing what is mortal and unsure
To all that fortune, death, and danger dare,
Even for an eggshell. Rightly to be great
Is not to stir without great argument,
But greatly to find quarrel in a straw
When honor’s at the stake. How stand I, then,
That have a father killed, a mother stained,
Excitements of my reason and my blood,
And let all sleep, while to my shame I see
The imminent death of twenty thousand men
That for a fantasy and trick of fame
Go to their graves like beds, fight for a plot
Whereon the numbers cannot try the cause,
Which is not tomb enough and continent
To hide the slain? O, from this time forth
My thoughts be bloody or be nothing worth!


Sounds like 1/4 of what is needed... ;)

Q said...

Do seed of a plant needs nuclear reactor? ;-) (well, it does... but that's beyond the point here)

Joe Conservative said...

Who are you, Socrates (argument before Republic described)?

You have something against Glaucon's "relish" or Bataille's accursed share?

Plato, "Republic"

Let us then consider, first of all, what will be their way of life, now that we have thus established them. Will they not produce corn, and wine, and clothes, and shoes, and build houses for themselves? And when they are housed, they will work, in summer, commonly, stripped and barefoot, but in winter substantially clothed and shod. They will feed on barley-meal and flour of wheat, baking and kneading them, making noble cakes and loaves; these they will serve up on a mat of reeds or on clean leaves, themselves reclining the while upon beds strewn with yew or myrtle. And they and their children will feast, drinking of the wine which they have made, wearing garlands on their heads, and hymning the praises of the gods, in happy converse with one another. And they will take care that their families do not exceed their means; having an eye to poverty or war.

But, said Glaucon, interposing, you have not given them a relish to their meal.

True, I replied, I had forgotten; of course they must have a relish—salt, and olives, and cheese, and they will boil roots and herbs such as country people prepare; for a dessert we shall give them figs, and peas, and beans; and they will roast myrtle-berries and acorns at the fire, drinking in moderation. And with such a diet they may be expected to live in peace and health to a good old age, and bequeath a similar life to their children after them.

Yes, Socrates, he said, and if you were providing for a city of pigs, how else would you feed the beasts?

But what would you have, Glaucon? I replied.

Why, he said, you should give them the ordinary conveniences of life. People who are to be comfortable are accustomed to lie on sofas, and dine off tables, and they should have sauces and sweets in the modern style.

Yes, I said, now I understand: the question which you would have me consider is, not only how a State, but how a luxurious State is created; and possibly there is no harm in this, for in such a State we shall be more likely to see how justice and injustice originate. In my opinion the true and healthy constitution of the State is the one which I have described. But if you wish also to see a State at fever-heat, I have no objection. For I suspect that many will not be satisfied with the simpler way of life. They will be for adding sofas, and tables, and other furniture; also dainties, and perfumes, and incense, and courtesans, and cakes, all these not of one sort only, but in every variety; we must go beyond the necessaries of which I was at first speaking, such as houses, and clothes, and shoes: the arts of the painter and the embroiderer will have to be set in motion, and gold and ivory and all sorts of materials must be procured.

True, he said.

Q said...

\\You have something against Glaucon's "relish" or Bataille's accursed share?

... is a 1949 book about political economy ...


Heh. I know the Newest Economy Theory... and it looks promising. ;-P

Not that mamoth crap. ;-)


But he spotted certain part of the Truth too.

"Bataille's inquiry takes the superabundance of energy, beginning from the outpouring of solar energy or the surpluses produced by life's basic chemical reactions, as the norm for organisms."


\\Plato, "Republic"

Ehm?
Where's nuclear reactor in that piece? ;-)

Joe Conservative said...

\\You have something against Glaucon's "relish" or Bataille's accursed share?
... is a 1949 book about political economy ...
Heh. I know the Newest Economy Theory... and it looks promising. ;-P
Not that mamoth crap. ;-)
But he spotted certain part of the Truth too.
"Bataille's inquiry takes the superabundance of energy, beginning from the outpouring of solar energy or the surpluses produced by life's basic chemical reactions, as the norm for organisms."


Neo-Liberalism? There's nothing new about that. The British had it in the eigt=hteenth century. It's called mercantilism. Selling opium to China.


\\Plato, "Republic"
Ehm?
Where's nuclear reactor in that piece? ;-)


Socrates proposed a simple economy (no nukes). Glaucon complained. Said that we couldn't have "luxuries" w/o more complexity. You hate luxury?

Joe Conservative said...

elling opium to China.... and "tea" to Americans.

Joe Conservative said...

We prefer coffee now.

Q said...

\\Neo-Liberalism? There's nothing new about that. The British had it in the eigt=hteenth century. It's called mercantilism. Selling opium to China.

Non sequitur.
How I should respond to this... if I do not see how it relates to my words???


\\You hate luxury?

I already confessed to you on that. I am average Joe. What luxury? I do not such word in my vocabulary. %-)






Joe Conservative said...

from the Jowett summary of Plato's "Republic"

But, said Glaucon, interposing, you have not given them a relish to their meal.

True, I replied, I had forgotten; of course they must have a relish—salt, and olives, and cheese, and they will boil roots and herbs such as country people prepare; for a dessert we shall give them figs, and peas, and beans; and they will roast myrtle-berries and acorns at the fire, drinking in moderation. And with such a diet they may be expected to live in peace and health to a good old age, and bequeath a similar life to their children after them.

Yes, Socrates, he said, and if you were providing for a city of pigs, how else would you feed the beasts?

But what would you have, Glaucon? I replied.

Why, he said, you should give them the ordinary conveniences of life. People who are to be comfortable are accustomed to lie on sofas, and dine off tables, and they should have sauces and sweets in the modern style.

Yes, I said, now I understand: the question which you would have me consider is, not only how a State, but how a luxurious State is created; and possibly there is no harm in this, for in such a State we shall be more likely to see how justice and injustice originate. In my opinion the true and healthy constitution of the State is the one which I have described. But if you wish also to see a State at fever-heat, I have no objection. For I suspect that many will not be satisfied with the simpler way of life. They will be for adding sofas, and tables, and other furniture; also dainties, and perfumes, and incense, and courtesans, and cakes, all these not of one sort only, but in every variety; we must go beyond the necessaries of which I was at first speaking, such as houses, and clothes, and shoes: the arts of the painter and the embroiderer will have to be set in motion, and gold and ivory and all sorts of materials must be procured.

True, he said.

Then we must enlarge our borders; for the original healthy State is no longer sufficient. Now will the city have to fill and swell with a multitude of callings which are not required by any natural want; such as the whole tribe of hunters and actors, of whom one large class have to do with forms and colours; another will be the votaries of music—poets and their attendant train of rhapsodists, players, dancers, contractors; also makers of divers kinds of articles, including women’s dresses. And we shall want more servants. Will not tutors be also in request, and nurses wet and dry, tirewomen and barbers, as well as confectioners and cooks; and swineherds, too, who were not needed and therefore had no place in the former edition of our State, but are needed now? They must not be forgotten: and there will be animals of many other kinds, if people eat them.

Certainly.

And living in this way we shall have much greater need of physicians than before?

Much greater.


And the country which was enough to support the original inhabitants will be too small now, and not enough?

Quite true.

Joe Conservative said...

Cont....


Then a slice of our neighbours’ land will be wanted by us for pasture and tillage, and they will want a slice of ours, if, like ourselves, they exceed the limit of necessity, and give themselves up to the unlimited accumulation of wealth?

That, Socrates, will be inevitable.


And so we shall go to war, Glaucon. Shall we not?

Most certainly, he replied.

Then without determining as yet whether war does good or harm, thus much we may affirm, that now we have discovered war to be derived from causes which are also the causes of almost all the evils in States, private as well as public.

Undoubtedly.

And our State must once more enlarge; and this time the enlargement will be nothing short of a whole army, which will have to go out and fight with the invaders for all that we have, as well as for the things and persons whom we were describing above.

Why? he said; are they not capable of defending themselves?

No, I said; not if we were right in the principle which was acknowledged by all of us when we were framing the State: the principle, as you will remember, was that one man cannot practise many arts with success.

Very true, he said.

But is not war an art?

Certainly.

And an art requiring as much attention as shoemaking?

Quite true.

And the shoemaker was not allowed by us to be a husbandman, or a weaver, or a builder—in order that we might have our shoes well made; but to him and to every other worker was assigned one work for which he was by nature fitted, and at that he was to continue working all his life long and at no other; he was not to let opportunities slip, and then he would become a good workman. Now nothing can be more important than that the work of a soldier should be well done. But is war an art so easily acquired that a man may be a warrior who is also a husbandman, or shoemaker, or other artisan; although no one in the world would be a good dice or draught player who merely took up the game as a recreation, and had not from his earliest years devoted himself to this and nothing else? No tools will make a man a skilled workman, or master of defence, nor be of any use to him who has not learned how to handle them, and has never bestowed any attention upon them. How then will he who takes up a shield or other implement of war become a good fighter all in a day, whether with heavy-armed or any other kind of troops?

Yes, he said, the tools which would teach men their own use would be beyond price.

Joe Conservative said...

...luxuries... anything beyond 3 hots and a cot.

Joe Conservative said...

...the un-necessary necessaries. The "illogical" stuff that a "rational State" like the former USSR had difficulty "planning" for with "Central Planning" because by the time they could manufacture it, it had "gone out of style"?

You know. The symbols of "Social Capital". Like a college education or all the best SciFi books. The stuff that establishes the social hierarchy and "bonds" of "belonging"?

The "accursed share" destined for a bonfire of vanities or a potlatch ceremony at the Fallas in Valencia or the Tomatina or a Holi celebration in India?

Joe Conservative said...

The "aesthetics" of life and culture.

Joe Conservative said...

...the stuff that gives human beings a "feeling of power" much like "truth"?

Joe Conservative said...

...or at least it's commodity fetish commodified equivalent system of objects? I'm sure that your wife/gf does. ;)

Joe Conservative said...

...for it is in her hypergamous nature to seek out these signs and symbols.

Q said...

\\...the un-necessary necessaries. The "illogical" stuff that a "rational State" like the former USSR had difficulty "planning" for with "Central Planning" because by the time they could manufacture it, it had "gone out of style"?

What makes you think that "by the time they could manufacture it" was happening? ;-P
Again, your sources is countre-factual.
Early USSR was taking that "luxuries" from robbing previous elite homes.
Late USSR was buying it with petro-dollars... as well as many-many other things "they could't manufacture it". ;-P

And today's Ra'Sha... elevated it to a state of "no need to manufacture, if you can buy it". ;-P


Well, you are right. Female's desire to have that nice stuff... could be the reason of USSR breakup. ;-P
MNaybe... most fundamentsl and definite.
The same as current... and all wars in general.

Joe Conservative said...

\\...the un-necessary necessaries. The "illogical" stuff that a "rational State" like the former USSR had difficulty "planning" for with "Central Planning" because by the time they could manufacture it, it had "gone out of style"?
What makes you think that "by the time they could manufacture it" was happening? ;-P
Again, your sources is countre-factual.
Early USSR was taking that "luxuries" from robbing previous elite homes.
Late USSR was buying it with petro-dollars... as well as many-many other things "they could't manufacture it". ;-P
And today's Ra'Sha... elevated it to a state of "no need to manufacture, if you can buy it". ;-P


Yes, we call it "globalism". No need to manufature, the Chinese will... But then where does America's money come from if there are no "workers" earning? Ah, "credit"... new 1's/0's from the Federal Reserve of imaginary money... the SAME kind we give Ukraine...

Joe Conservative said...

Everything is wonderful until the day people realize that there is no "real" basis for their wealth/ prosperity. That the federal reserve should be gold at Fort Know, and not just 1's / 0's in GOLEMs memory bank.

Joe Conservative said...

erratum - "Ft. Knox".

Joe Conservative said...

:P

Joe Conservative said...

Did you watch the television show, Mr. Robot?

Q said...

\\Yes, we call it "globalism". No need to manufature, the Chinese will... But then where does America's money come from if there are no "workers" earning? Ah, "credit"... new 1's/0's from the Federal Reserve of imaginary money... the SAME kind we give Ukraine...

There lots of educational materials about Economics on YouTube. ;-P

Ok, I'll give you a hint. To preempt you whinning that I am no fun slob. ;-P

Go follow of breedcrumbs of WHY they discarded Golden Standard. ;-) After Great Depression. ;-)



\\Did you watch the television show, Mr. Robot?

Yap. Semi-autentic depiction of a "job" of a hacker.
Same semi-autentic with everything else, I presume. (yawn)

Joe Conservative said...

I know all about Nixon's kicking of the economic can down the road, thankyou.

We've reached the end of the road. No one's "buying" T-Bills anymore. They sit, unsold, in a warehouse computer at the "fed".

Mr. Robot shows what happens when the people no longer know. or care, what's stored on that computer.

Q said...

\\We've reached the end of the road. No one's "buying" T-Bills anymore. They sit, unsold, in a warehouse computer at the "fed".

So, what?


\\Mr. Robot shows what happens when the people no longer know. or care, what's stored on that computer.

Second season?
I became bored in the end of a first one... exactly because of ideas such as that introduced in it.
"Fighting club" made that point... playfully, for at least. ;-P

Joe Conservative said...

So what? The Fight Club ending is about to "get real", THAT is "what".

Joe Conservative said...

...and it won't be playful. Millions/ hundreds of millions, will die.

Q said...

\\So what? The Fight Club ending is about to "get real", THAT is "what".

Oh, do you like fantasy too? ;-P


\\...and it won't be playful. Millions/ hundreds of millions, will die.

As I said... fantasy.
Of a lamest kind.

Joe Conservative said...

Wanna know what fantasy is? It's receiving revenues on the order of $4 trillion a year and spending those revenues on the order of $7 trillion a year... indefinitely. THAT is called adding "fragility" to an already "fragile" system.

Joe Conservative said...

Wanna know what happens when an overly fragile system receives a "shock"?

Joe Conservative said...

$10 trillion in unsold debt obligations is merely the largest and most obvious "crack". There are many others.

Q said...

So what?

I see and understand that you are obsessed about that number $10 trillion.

What do you want of me?

To start screaming and running by streets naked? :-)))) To attract people's attention to that fact.

What is your plan?
Is it like "fighting club" one?
Or Mr.Robot's one? ;-P

Joe Conservative said...

My plan is to stop doing the stupid things we've been doing, like allowing the government to spend money on wars (Ukraine and ME) that do not "profit" the American economy in pursuit of a form of capitalism (globalism) that we know must end.

Q said...

Then... you will not have capitalism.

Cuibis facis parabelum.

Joe Conservative said...

No, you will still have capitalism. Only it will have "limits" like national borders and the amount of money that any one person or corporation can accumulate. It'll be a larger game for smaller players instead of a small game for larger players.

Joe Conservative said...

You should read the preface to the US Constitution. We designed a LIMITED government.

Q said...

\\No, you will still have capitalism.

Well. I admit it. I cannot said anything definite here.
As it is very new situation -- one of the biggest and most prominent country... suddenly decided to shut out own leg(s?)
Became invalid out of own unhindered volition.
And for a reason devoid of any merit. :-)))))))
That is like if England would decide to burn own Grand Fleet... just before Unbeatable Armada coming.
And by suggestion from lord Nelson to boot.
History would be VERY different in such case. Otherworldly different.
There nothing like tht happened in our Universe.
That's why, if that going to happen, I only can watch at it. Speachlessly.


\\You should read the preface to the US Constitution. We designed a LIMITED government.

Not My Problem.

Maybe that is not that apparent to you why I use that formula?
There is lots of reasons:
discuss politics is not that interesting in general,
I have no play in your games,
discussing politics of another countries... smells bad,
and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

While on the plus side is too few. None practicly.

Joe Conservative said...

\\No, you will still have capitalism.
Well. I admit it. I cannot said anything definite here.
As it is very new situation -- one of the biggest and most prominent country... suddenly decided to shut out own leg(s?)
Became invalid out of own unhindered volition.
And for a reason devoid of any merit. :-)))))))
That is like if England would decide to burn own Grand Fleet... just before Unbeatable Armada coming.
And by suggestion from lord Nelson to boot.
History would be VERY different in such case. Otherworldly different.
There nothing like tht happened in our Universe.
That's why, if that going to happen, I only can watch at it. Speachlessly.


Well you shouldn't be shocked. Trump began the project of "reform", but soon discovered that America was not quite the "republic" or "democracy" that he had been led to believe existed. And so we, his supporters, learned as well. The bureaucracy (mandarins) in DC no longer take orders from superiors. They've grown to used to giving them. And they never need stand for re-election. Now, they're arrogant. The revolving door between Government positions and K Street (corporate lobbysist offices) has become a threat to the continuation of our democracy. Business as usual means Wall Street grows, but Main Street shrinks and gets shuttered. An ever greater number of Americans (just under 50%) no longer pay income taxes. Something needs to change. And a return to the "pre-economic globalist paradigm" is the natural 1st step. Our economy all started to go wrong after Bretton Woods. And with the internet, America no longer needs a government. Everyone is controlled through tech, what one can say, who can say it, what one can hear, who can't hear it.

America will one day return to the world stage. But not until we clean our house.


\\You should read the preface to the US Constitution. We designed a LIMITED government.
Not My Problem.
Maybe that is not that apparent to you why I use that formula?
There is lots of reasons:
discuss politics is not that interesting in general,
I have no play in your games,
discussing politics of another countries... smells bad,
and et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
While on the plus side is too few. None practicly.


I understand. But I just wanted you to know that for the time being at least, America can not be relied upon to either do the right thing, or respond to crises around the world. Our domestic politics no longer function as designed. And our foreign politics no longer respond to the will of our domestic politicians. The Myth of the Adminsitrators has been exposed.

"EROSION OF THE MYTH OF ADMINISTRATORS OF THE COMMONS
"Indeed, the process has been so widely commented upon that one writer postulated a common life cycle for all of the attempts to develop regulatory policies. The life cycle is launched by an outcry so widespread and demanding that it generates enough political force to bring about establishment of a regulatory agency to insure the equitable, just, and rational distribution of the advantages among all holders of interest in the commons. This phase is followed by the symbolic reassurance of the offended as the agency goes into operation, developing a period of political quiescence among the great majority of those who hold a general but unorganized interest in the commons. Once this political quiescence has developed, the highly organized and specifically interested groups who wish to make incursions into the commons bring sufficient pressure to bear through other political processes to convert the agency to the protection and furthering of their interests. In the last phase even staffing of the regulating agency is accomplished by drawing the agency administrators from the ranks of the regulated." [p.p. 60-61]
"

Q said...

\\Well you shouldn't be shocked. Trump began the project of "reform"

Forgive me my disbelief.
While you keep throwing at me your USA political realities as points to discuss, and I faithfully trying to avoid such discussions with my Not My Business...
I can say, that even for bystanders, for outsiders, for nonchalant observers from another hemisphere it was seen clearly -- that there was NONE, nada, nothing under brand of "reforms of USA of Trump"...
that is empty shell of an eaten out from inside egg of shallow populism.

Why? Still. Some of americans think and demonstrate their faith in that that there was something real behind that populism... that is question that puzzling many-many of us outsiders.
But well, yeah, that is Not Our Business. To point our fingers at.
So, I bid my deeply sorry here.



\\The bureaucracy (mandarins) in DC no longer take orders from superiors.

Sorry.
But that is just common sense.
If there is new captain on the bridge -- that doesn't mean that he can give whatever orders he likes...
Like to throw out spare parts for engine into the sea.(to make ship lighter, or something)
Chief Engineer will try to oppose him directly. Or will try to sabotage such an unreasonable orders.



\\An ever greater number of Americans (just under 50%) no longer pay income taxes.

And what about Trump's Tax Cuts then? ;-)



\\Something needs to change.

As for me... it better be (carefully and thoroughly) Planned change. Or, how do you think? ;-)


\\Our economy all started to go wrong after Bretton Woods.

So? You want to return to that Old Good Times of cycling economical depressions???
Return to times of poverty and even chance to die from hunger???
That is more "healthy"?
Well, in a socail darvinism sense it is.
But, I think, you will not achieve many supporters if you'll declare it that opaque. ;-)


\\America will one day return to the world stage. But not until we clean our house.

There is no time for that. While Big Game going. ;-P



\\But I just wanted you to know that for the time being at least, America can not be relied upon to either do the right thing, or respond to crises around the world.

Again. There is no time for that.
And I do not see in all History WHEN such time was available to anybody.
Those who stall on the Path of Progress got stomped by those who was, maybe stumbling, maybe falling and rising up again, maybe crawling even sometimes, but moves forward.

'My dear, here we must run as fast as we can, just to stay in place. And if you wish to go anywhere you must run twice as fast as that.' (c) Lewis Carroll

And that is NOT my worldview I trying to impose on you.
Reality itself.
I would like to change something in it too...



\\"EROSION OF THE MYTH OF ADMINISTRATORS OF THE COMMONS

Yep. Uvalde Syndrome.

Joe Conservative said...

\Well you shouldn't be shocked. Trump began the project of "reform"
...But well, yeah, that is Not Our Business. To point our fingers at.
So, I bid my deeply sorry here.


Well I watch and play insider baseball. The outside world is ill informed.


\\The bureaucracy (mandarins) in DC no longer take orders from superiors.
Sorry.
But that is just common sense.
If there is new captain on the bridge -- that doesn't mean that he can give whatever orders he likes...
Like to throw out spare parts for engine into the sea.(to make ship lighter, or something)
Chief Engineer will try to oppose him directly. Or will try to sabotage such an unreasonable orders.


After 2024, Chief Engineer will be fired.


\\An ever greater number of Americans (just under 50%) no longer pay income taxes.
And what about Trump's Tax Cuts then? ;-)


They pay less taxes on unearned income, too.


\\Something needs to change.
As for me... it better be (carefully and thoroughly) Planned change. Or, how do you think? ;-)


Exactly.


\\Our economy all started to go wrong after Bretton Woods.
So? You want to return to that Old Good Times of cycling economical depressions???


Yes, but the question is, why don't you? That's real capitalism.


Return to times of poverty and even chance to die from hunger???
That is more "healthy"?


Have you seen how fat Americans are?


Well, in a socail darvinism sense it is.
But, I think, you will not achieve many supporters if you'll declare it that opaque. ;-)


It's all in the marketting, no doubt about it.


\\America will one day return to the world stage. But not until we clean our house.
There is no time for that. While Big Game going. ;-P


No time for Ukraine, but plenty of time for us.


\\But I just wanted you to know that for the time being at least, America can not be relied upon to either do the right thing, or respond to crises around the world.
Again. There is no time for that.
And I do not see in all History WHEN such time was available to anybody.
Those who stall on the Path of Progress got stomped by those who was, maybe stumbling, maybe falling and rising up again, maybe crawling even sometimes, but moves forward.
'My dear, here we must run as fast as we can, just to stay in place. And if you wish to go anywhere you must run twice as fast as that.' (c) Lewis Carroll


Just call me Bartleby (the scrivner).

And that is NOT my worldview I trying to impose on you.
Reality itself.
I would like to change something in it too...


Like Lacan said about "reality"...


\\"EROSION OF THE MYTH OF ADMINISTRATORS OF THE COMMONS
Yep. Uvalde Syndrome.


Indeed.

Joe Conservative said...

What the news fails to report.

Q said...

\\Well I watch and play insider baseball. The outside world is ill informed.

So? That reforms is crypto-reforms? O.K.
I only think that it looks similar to what Putin and Xi doing. This way. ;-P
But well, I do not neet you to disprove it. To provide any additional info. And that is not clever treak. NO insider's info I want of you. Period.
Let your "observer" or what you call em from CIA know that. ;-P


\\After 2024, Chief Engineer will be fired.

And ship will sunk? ;-P As planned. :-)))
Ough, no, what I say, that is just remodelling it into U-boat.


\\They pay less taxes on unearned income, too.

Aha.... machiavellism. I see. :-)


\\\\\\Our economy all started to go wrong after Bretton Woods.
\\\\So? You want to return to that Old Good Times of cycling economical depressions???
\\Yes, but the question is, why don't you? That's real capitalism.

NMP.


\\Have you seen how fat Americans are?

Non sequitur.



\\\\\\America will one day return to the world stage. But not until we clean our house.
\\\\There is no time for that. While Big Game going. ;-P
\\No time for Ukraine, but plenty of time for us.

"And let's World wait" works only as a slogan in commercial. ;-P


\\Just call me Bartleby (the scrivner).

Yep. That what phylosopher would (not) do. (handshake)
But, Lem. As phylosopher himself. Disproved viability of it. ;-P


\\Like Lacan said about "reality"...

I think I did a good job introducing to you Lem.
May I recieve a favour back. In a sense of Golden Rule.
What importance do you see in it? And why it could be interesting to a techy guy. And phylosopher.


\\What the news fails to report.

Thank you for introducing me to yellow-press of USA... in a web variant.
Before I knew only National Inquerer.
But...
In the very beginning of that article. What I read -- "...ports are choked with cargo containers...".

If that is how to you looks "end of globalism"... I have nothing to comment here.

Joe Conservative said...

Let your "observer" or what you call em from CIA know that. ;-P

NSA. CIA get's the summary and look-up location


\\After 2024, Chief Engineer will be fired.
And ship will sunk? ;-P As planned. :-)))
Ough, no, what I say, that is just remodelling it into U-boat.


I'm with Plato. In a storm you want one pilot giving commands, and a crew who listens to and obeys his commands. Not a crew doing whatever they, individually, think "best".


\\They pay less taxes on unearned income, too.
Aha.... machiavellism. I see. :-)


It's all in the marketing.


\\\\\\Our economy all started to go wrong after Bretton Woods.
\\\\So? You want to return to that Old Good Times of cycling economical depressions???
\\Yes, but the question is, why don't you? That's real capitalism.
NMP


No faith in the power of capitalism is why you fail.


\\Have you seen how fat Americans are?
Non sequitur.


Indeed. FAT/ starving poor people. It's an oxymoron.


\\\\\\America will one day return to the world stage. But not until we clean our house.
\\\\There is no time for that. While Big Game going. ;-P
\\No time for Ukraine, but plenty of time for us.
"And let's World wait" works only as a slogan in commercial. ;-P


I'll remember that for the PR campaign that'll run in Europe on VOA when we announce that we're out of NATO.


\\Just call me Bartleby (the scrivner).
Yep. That what phylosopher would (not) do. (handshake)
But, Lem. As phylosopher himself. Disproved viability of it. ;-P


Wisdom can be quite "subjective" (and seldom "universal") As I've said in other places, wisdom is "power's" cardinally opposed virtue to "justice". King Solomon and the baby...


\\Like Lacan said about "reality"...
I think I did a good job introducing to you Lem.
May I recieve a favour back. In a sense of Golden Rule.
What importance do you see in it? And why it could be interesting to a techy guy. And phylosopher.


Lacan/ psychology? Because I've been "insane". I've been inside of a mental hospital. I've experienced a "psychic break". I therefore "know" what a paranoiac "mind bullet" does. I've "experienced" being on the "receiving end" of one. I've felt its' "power". The power the paranoiac-critical method. Reality is not as it seems. Reality is the part that "escapes" castration into language, not the part you believe in you head re-created from your own jouissance. THAT is infused with "imagination" through symbolism. It's "why" Putin keeps the Bolshoi. It symbolizes his "power" in the minds of his most important subjects, the "elite" of Russia. And it helps that they experience that symbolic power as "pleasure" (and not just pain or fear of a future use of force that backs his power up). It's a "reward" for "loyalty". Like a biscuit for his dogs. A "psychic" biscuit of "surplus enjoyment".

Joe Conservative said...

In the very beginning of that article. What I read -- "...ports are choked with cargo containers...".
If that is how to you looks "end of globalism"... I have nothing to comment here.


Want to know "why" the CA ports are choked (and not anywhere alse in the US)? It has nothing to do with ships arriving. They arrive at the same rate they always did. It has to do with California's pollution regulations for trucks. Only new/environmentally compliant trucks can legally transport the containers. And there aren't enough of them for the job. The old trucks are still around, but can't (by self-imposed regulations of bureaucrats) be used or the Democrats who govern the State and control the Statehouse would have to admit their own stupidity. It's a self-inflicted wound in the name of "green energy". We only have a 45 day supply of diesel fuel in the entire country, for these same reasons. Bureacrats unable to admit to the real causes of their mismanagement. Media outlets unable to reveal that the policies they've been screaming to solve the "global warming problem" don't work now and never will. It's anti-progress (energy densities/ Lazare Carnot).

It has nothing to do with the end of globalism except as a reason to change back to laissez-faire capitalism... and destroy the government-corporate alliance that sustains it. To return to "radical progressivism" and the policies "against bigness". Trust-busting.

Q said...

\\\\Let your "observer" or what you call em from CIA know that. ;-P
\\NSA. CIA get's the summary and look-up location

Then, you can throw em bone -- that there somwhere is an inventor of New Technological Revolution. ;-P

Which can make for em many interesting gadgets.
Like robots that can lurk into deepest and most secret bunkers. ;-)
Or eliminate threat of that Poseidons. Or that boats with cocain... but what if it is under CIA roof, oh shit, I screwed. :-)))


\\I'm with Plato. In a storm you want one pilot giving commands, and a crew who listens to and obeys his commands. Not a crew doing whatever they, individually, think "best".

Plato was not κυβερνητικός. (yawn)


\\It's all in the marketing.

And what I said? ;-)
Marketing. M-A-C-H-I-A-V-E-L-L-I-S-M.
Seems like it.



\\No faith in the power of capitalism is why you fail.

Dunno what makes you think so.
But, whatever. (yawn)


\\I'll remember that for the PR campaign that'll run in Europe on VOA when we announce that we're out of NATO.

Dreams, sweet dreams... %-)))


\\Wisdom can be quite "subjective" (and seldom "universal") As I've said in other places, wisdom is "power's" cardinally opposed virtue to "justice". King Solomon and the baby...

That's why I all hands in favour of techs. ;-P



\\Lacan/ psychology? Because I've been "insane". I've been inside of a mental hospital. I've experienced a "psychic break". I therefore "know" what a paranoiac "mind bullet" does. I've "experienced" being on the "receiving end" of one. I've felt its' "power". The power the paranoiac-critical method. Reality is not as it seems.

We all have our epiphanies.
Well, those of us who got brains.


\\Reality is the part that "escapes" castration into language...

Yep.
Because lang is in cardinalitiy of the set of natural numbers. ;-P


\\It's "why" Putin keeps the Bolshoi.

Naah. He is indifferent toward it. You think too high about his cultural and intellectual level -- for him to care about it.
Dogs and rainbows. Nigero and words. ;-P
You overthinking it.
As most of observers/experts/pundits talking about Russia's realities.
That is mostly lame orientalism. RFia's culture -- that is empty shell of an eaten out from inside egg.
And that is cuckoo's egg to boot. ;-P Means, that is not their own culture.


\\It symbolizes his "power" in the minds of his most important subjects, the "elite" of Russia.

WHAT elite??? :-)))))
Again. You overthinking.


\\It's a "reward" for "loyalty".

Reward for loyalty -- that is their bottomest people well-feed at last. Like in Old Good Times of Bregnev. ;-P


\\Want to know "why" the CA ports are choked (and not anywhere alse in the US)? It has nothing to do with ships arriving. They arrive at the same rate they always did. It has to do with California's pollution regulations for trucks.

I skimmed that text, thank you.



\\It has nothing to do with the end of globalism except as a reason to change back to laissez-faire capitalism... and destroy the government-corporate alliance that sustains it. To return to "radical progressivism" and the policies "against bigness". Trust-busting.

Now you sounds totally libtard. ;-P
Maybe you should seek to cooperatewuth em?

Joe Conservative said...

\\\\Let your "observer" or what you call em from CIA know that. ;-P
\\NSA. CIA get's the summary and look-up location
Then, you can throw em bone -- that there somwhere is an inventor of New Technological Revolution. ;-P
Which can make for em many interesting gadgets.
Like robots that can lurk into deepest and most secret bunkers. ;-)
Or eliminate threat of that Poseidons. Or that boats with cocain... but what if it is under CIA roof, oh shit, I screwed. :-)))


They'll probably just hack you and steal it. Actually, they were probably doing that as you typed.


\\Wisdom can be quite "subjective" (and seldom "universal") As I've said in other places, wisdom is "power's" cardinally opposed virtue to "justice". King Solomon and the baby...
That's why I all hands in favour of techs. ;-P


Because tech/computers can't be unjust? @@


\\It's "why" Putin keeps the Bolshoi.
Naah. He is indifferent toward it. You think too high about his cultural and intellectual level -- for him to care about it.
Dogs and rainbows. Nigero and words. ;-P
You overthinking it.
As most of observers/experts/pundits talking about Russia's realities.
That is mostly lame orientalism. RFia's culture -- that is empty shell of an eaten out from inside egg.
And that is cuckoo's egg to boot. ;-P Means, that is not their own culture.
\\It symbolizes his "power" in the minds of his most important subjects, the "elite" of Russia.
WHAT elite??? :-)))))
Again. You overthinking.
\\It's a "reward" for "loyalty".
Reward for loyalty -- that is their bottomest people well-feed at last. Like in Old Good Times of Bregnev. ;-P


You understimate the ego's of the "mass-men". Ortega y Gasset, "Revolt of the Masses"


\\It has nothing to do with the end of globalism except as a reason to change back to laissez-faire capitalism... and destroy the government-corporate alliance that sustains it. To return to "radical progressivism" and the policies "against bigness". Trust-busting.
Now you sounds totally libtard. ;-P
Maybe you should seek to cooperatewuth em?


I am a classical liberal of the Isaiah Berlin school (All Souls, Oxford). ;)

Q said...

\\They'll probably just hack you and steal it. Actually, they were probably doing that as you typed.

Hacking the brain? :-))) Goodspeed to them. ;-P


\\Because tech/computers can't be unjust? @@

Becuse they HAVE P-O-W-E-R!!! :-))))))))



\\You understimate the ego's of the "mass-men".

Masses do not have Ego. Save have and is just a iserly Id. ;-P



\\I am a classical liberal of the Isaiah Berlin school (All Souls, Oxford). ;)

Like it tells me something... (that's why I avoid telling about myself, much... who knows how to translate/convey the meaning of it, correctly)

Joe Conservative said...

\\They'll probably just hack you and steal it. Actually, they were probably doing that as you typed.
Hacking the brain? :-))) Goodspeed to them. ;-P


Give it a few years, when they require you to be fitted with a NeuraLink should you wish to be employed so as to earn money to feed yourself.


\\Because tech/computers can't be unjust? @@
Becuse they HAVE P-O-W-E-R!!! :-))))))))


Protocol power. ;)


\\You understimate the ego's of the "mass-men".
Masses do not have Ego. Save have and is just a iserly Id. ;-P


I used to ask myself, "Why do people want to go to the opera?" They don't speak Italian/ German. They can't even understand the words being sung w/o SuperTitles. They can't even understand the characters or plot (if High Culture), even if the understood the language. Yet so many nouveau-rich people are "opera snobs" (especially the gays). And you say this isn't "Ego"? Just "Id"?


\\I am a classical liberal of the Isaiah Berlin school (All Souls, Oxford). ;)
Like it tells me something... (that's why I avoid telling about myself, much... who knows how to translate/convey the meaning of it, correctly)


This is what I meant. Ever hear of the US Defense Strategy in the 50's of "Containment"? It was devised by an American diplomat while serving in the Moscow Embassy (George Kennan). He once wrote to Sir Isaiah to ask his opinion about it. This was Berlin's response. It convinced me just how absolutely correct this strategy was.

Joe Conservative said...

Meden Agan!

-FJ the Dangerous and Extreme MAGA Jew said...

Like it tells me something... (that's why I avoid telling about myself, much... who knows how to translate/convey the meaning of it, correctly)

Who knows how to translate/ convey the meaning without it (context)? You must love Derrida, Vygotsky (Decontextualization: A necessary condition for the development and application of abstract concepts.) and Barthes (Death of the Author).

Q said...

\\Give it a few years, when they require you to be fitted with a NeuraLink should you wish to be employed so as to earn money to feed yourself.

Yep.
You are not technologist.
In most edgy techs. ;-P


\\Protocol power. ;)

(yawn)


\\And you say this isn't "Ego"? Just "Id"?

Seems like we have different "masses" in mind, here. ;-P


\\This was Berlin's response.

the mysterious phrase about men being "ends in themselves," to which much lip-service has been paid, with not much attempt to explain it

Human is the measure of all tings? (c)


and far less present in the pagan world

Muslims? Buddhists? Daosists?
See... contemporary biases... is a big problem.


What horrifies one about Soviet or Nazi practice is not merely the suffering and the cruelty, since although that is bad enough, it is something which history has produced too often, and to ignore its apparent inevitability is perhaps real Utopianism--no; what turns one inside out, and is indescribable, is the spectacle of one set of persons who so tamper and "get at" others that the others do their will without knowing what they are doing; and in this lose their status as free human beings, indeed as human beings at all.

Bu-u-u-ullshit. :-)
But still, interesting to dissect and analyse reasons of such a POV. ;-)


This is the ultimate horror because in such a situation there are no worthwhile motives left: nothing is worth doing or avoiding, the reasons for existing are gone.

Yep. Russians Mysterious Soul.
That stems from sheer wastness and wilderness of space of environment.


But of course what we violently reject is not these questions of fact, but the very idea that there are any circumstances in which one has a right to get at, and shape, the characters and souls of other men for purposes which these men, if they realised what we were doing, might reject.

But... isn't that exactly what we (want to) do with children?

If pushed to the extreme, this doctrine would, of course, do away with all education, since when we send children to school or influence them in other ways without obtaining their approval for what we are doing, are we not "tampering" with them, "moulding" them like pieces of clay with no purpose of their own?

In what way that is "extreme"? That is bare fact.
That we unable to do that perfectly -- that is not excuse that allows us to shrug it off, that burden... but yeah, we always can show our backs to that question. :-)))


\\Ever hear of the US Defense Strategy in the 50's of "Containment"?

I presume that that is something known on soviet side as Dalles's Plan... of covert subvertion through moral degradation.... through inducing Western decadent ideas into innocently traditional societies... ;-P like advertising jazz, rock'n'roll, wearing jeans or drink Pepsi. :-))))
Well, that chime used once again by Putin and I presume by Xi too.
The same as by many-many other.
Even by Reps in USA. ;-P

Q said...

\\Who knows how to translate/ convey the meaning without it (context)? You must love Derrida, Vygotsky (Decontextualization: A necessary condition for the development and application of abstract concepts.) and Barthes (Death of the Author).

Lem. Period.

Joe Conservative said...

\\Give it a few years, when they require you to be fitted with a NeuraLink should you wish to be employed so as to earn money to feed yourself.
Yep.
You are not technologist.
In most edgy techs. ;-P


NASA stopped being edgy after 1969 moon landing. Now they only bet of "sure things".


\\And you say this isn't "Ego"? Just "Id"?
Seems like we have different "masses" in mind, here. ;-P


Muat be. I had the inside the Washington Beltway masses in mind. The ones who went to college and consider themselves to be "educated".


\\This was Berlin's response.
the mysterious phrase about men being "ends in themselves," to which much lip-service has been paid, with not much attempt to explain it
Human is the measure of all tings? (c)
and far less present in the pagan world
Muslims? Buddhists? Daosists?
See... contemporary biases... is a big problem.


Precisely why one needs to be multi-temporal as well as multi-cultural.


...But... isn't that exactly what we (want to) do with children?

If pushed to the extreme, this doctrine would, of course, do away with all education, since when we send children to school or influence them in other ways without obtaining their approval for what we are doing, are we not "tampering" with them, "moulding" them like pieces of clay with no purpose of their own?
In what way that is "extreme"? That is bare fact.
That we unable to do that perfectly -- that is not excuse that allows us to shrug it off, that burden... but yeah, we always can show our backs to that question. :-)))


An example from today's news. Teaching young children to be "transgender" and "polyamorous".


\\Ever hear of the US Defense Strategy in the 50's of "Containment"?
I presume that that is something known on soviet side as Dalles's Plan... of covert subvertion through moral degradation.... through inducing Western decadent ideas into innocently traditional societies... ;-P like advertising jazz, rock'n'roll, wearing jeans or drink Pepsi. :-))))
Well, that chime used once again by Putin and I presume by Xi too.
The same as by many-many other.
Even by Reps in USA. ;-P


No, that wasn't it. It was to prevent Soviet/Chinese expansion. The Korean Conflict. Vietnam. Cuban embargo. "Wall them up, and the whole thing collapses on its' own". That way they run out of "other people's money".


\\Who knows how to translate/ convey the meaning without it (context)? You must love Derrida, Vygotsky (Decontextualization: A necessary condition for the development and application of abstract concepts.) and Barthes (Death of the Author).
Lem. Period.


Lem signed his books. All yours are un"sign"ed... like a high school text book.

Q said...

\\NASA stopped being edgy after 1969 moon landing. Now they only bet of "sure things".

In 1969 edgy thing was 4004 processors. ;-) ;-P


\\Precisely why one needs to be multi-temporal as well as multi-cultural.

Being multi-temporal with the Past -- that's nothing biggy.
How to be multi-temporal about the Future -- that is the question. ;-)



\\An example from today's news. Teaching young children to be "transgender" and "polyamorous".

So what?
I am egg. (c)


\\No, that wasn't it. It was to prevent Soviet/Chinese expansion. The Korean Conflict. Vietnam. Cuban embargo. "Wall them up, and the whole thing collapses on its' own".

Yap. Ya oldies knew zat stuff. Operation Crome Dome. And all that.
You are not like them... for your own downfall. :-(((


\\That way they run out of "other people's money".

That was not a problem. For Soviet Union.
Burocracy, was their Nemesis. ;-P


\\Lem signed his books. All yours are un"sign"ed... like a high school text book.

Ehm???

Joe Conservative said...

Being multi-temporal with the Past -- that's nothing biggy.
How to be multi-temporal about the Future -- that is the question. ;-)


Have you heard of "preppers"?


\\An example from today's news. Teaching young children to be "transgender" and "polyamorous".
So what?
I am egg. (c)


You also male/ single w/no kids (one can tell from the "distance") ;)


\\No, that wasn't it. It was to prevent Soviet/Chinese expansion. The Korean Conflict. Vietnam. Cuban embargo. "Wall them up, and the whole thing collapses on its' own".
Yap. Ya oldies knew zat stuff. Operation Crome Dome. And all that.
You are not like them... for your own downfall. :-(((


Indeed, Just look at China today...


\\That way they run out of "other people's money".
That was not a problem. For Soviet Union.
Burocracy, was their Nemesis. ;-P


Ours, too.


\\Lem signed his books. All yours are un"sign"ed... like a high school text book.
Ehm???


anonymous authors...

Q said...

\\Have you heard of "preppers"?

:-)))


\\Ours, too.

Humble bragging again.


\\anonymous authors...

Too big a praise for a lowly anon. To call it author. ;-P

Joe Conservative said...

\\Ours, too.
Humble bragging again.


Not a "brag"... but a *shiver*


\\anonymous authors...
Too big a praise for a lowly anon. To call it author. ;-P


You have no agency? You are a vanished mediator?

Joe Conservative said...

:P

Q said...

\\\\\\Ours, too.
\\\\Humble bragging again.
\\Not a "brag"... but a *shiver*

I just tryed to insert that funny new notion of yours. "Humble bragging".
As they exlain it -- that is when rich people brag about how they dirtied their Versace with fuagra. ;-P

Q said...

\\An example from today's news. Teaching young children to be "transgender" and "polyamorous".

Did you heard about bonobos? ;-)

Joe Conservative said...

Yes I have. It turns out that further research has proven bonobos to be just as violent as other species of primates.

Q said...

That is not agressivness, that is their selling point. ;-}

Joe Conservative said...

An advert listing all the pro's and none of the con's....

Q said...

Sorry. I am not too well versed in English (or Engrish, as Nigero constantly suggests).
To deshifer this short comment.
Sorry, I am tedious opponent, sorry. :-(((