Wikipedia: Scott Ritter writes various articles critical of NATO for the Russian channel RT (formerly Russia Today). In July 2022, Ritter was added to a list of pro-Russia propagandists compiled by the Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation.
Scott Ritter himself admits there is no "kill list".
Quote: ...the Center for Countering Disinformation announced the existence of [a] list of "information terrorists" who deserved to be arrested and prosecuted as "war criminals". At the time, I cautioned that the use of such inflammatory language meant that the "blacklist" could be turned into a "kill list" simply by having a fanatic decide to take justice into his or her own hands. End Quote
No "kill list". Only a list of liars. And Ritter whining about being called out as a liar.
I don't know who killed Jeffrey Epstein. Likely Jeffrey Epstein. Or Bill Barr ordered him killed to protect dotard donald.
I don't listen to Scott Ritter when he speaks outside of his field of expertise, and even then I'm not interested in how to get a child to meet up for sex.
Ritter notes that they all supported H.R. 7691, “The Additional Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2022,” which provides funding for the Ukrainian government, and its Center for Countering Disinformation.
As a constituent whose name has appeared on a so-called “blacklist” published by the Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation,” Ritter wrote, “my personal and professional life has been, and continues to be, detrimentally impacted by the chilling effect of being labeled a “Russian propagandist” for simply exercising the right to free speech guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Moreover, Ukraine has a history of converting “blacklists” of this nature into “kill lists,” where those who speak out against the policies of the Ukrainian government are being murdered or threatened with violence.
I am certain you agree with me that Congress cannot be in a position where, through its actions, foreign governments are provided the means to intimidate citizens of the United States from exercising their Constitutionally protected rights regarding free speech….
Congress cannot be allowed to bypass Constitutionally imposed constraints on its actions by allowing a foreign government to do that which would not be permitted here in the United States. By paying the salaries of the civil servants employed by the Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation, who have prepared and disseminated the so-called “blacklist,” you and your fellow Senators and Representatives appear to be doing just that—allowing the government of Ukraine to suppress the right of free speech guaranteed to United States citizens under the Constitution.
Scott Ritter's free speech rights have been suppressed? Must explain why we're discussing him exercising his free speech rights. As opposed to Ritter the Russian propagandist getting kicked off YouTube. If he were a Russian living in Russia and telling the truth he'd be in prison or dead already.
Your list could be turned into a "kill list" simply by having a fanatic decide to take justice into his or her own hands. Characterize it however you like... but it's still a kill list.
Peter Schweizer issued a "kill list" in book form. A trumpturd travelled to Nancy Pelosi's house looking for her and attacked her husband with a hammer. donald tRump called for his own VP to be killed. Fanatics took take justice into their own hands and chanted "hang Mike Pence" while they stormed the Capitol.
I don't know what Paul Pelosi's attacker read or didn't read. He didn't target Nancy Pelosi for no reason, though. Peter Schweizer's kill list was part of the demonization of Nancy Pelosi that lead to her husband being attacked.
Calling for someone to be hung isn't "art". If I went to Mike Pence's home with a fake bomb labeled "art" and chanted "kill Mike Pence" the Secret Service might have a problem with my actions. Even if I stayed on the sidewalk. If I started breaking in I think they'd pay attention to my threats.
That Ritter is on the salary from Kremlin. ;-P He giving interviews on Russian TV, and do it in Russian, and saying what benefitial for Putin.
\\\\Examples! Examples! Examples! \\Oles Bouzina, Andrea Rocchelli, Zemfira Soulaeïmanova, Andreï Stenine, Igor Korneliouk, Anton Volochine, and more recently Daria Douguina.
Oh, I see. They tried to pack it tightly, to make it look like a "big list of crimes". "Big list" I heard before was much shorter.
Well, can you give at least short summary to each -- why it is so important... and damning??? You know. People dying all the time. And for veriety of reasons.
Because, AFAR as I know. Oles Bouzina -- that was some misfortunate result of private brawl Andrea Rocchelli -- incident on a frontline, sad but nothing rare. And I think all other was of similar style -- doubtful, at best. Or even staged and performed by RFia's secret services. For example. Daria Douguina -- that is clearly "hand of Kremlin". You should be heard how RFia's secret servics THEMSELF reported HOW CLOSELY they was following "terrorists" who "did it"... just to miss em. ;-P Screaming about setup. And in style of RFia's "silovoki" -- who like to make such public actions/executions. Like Nemtsov execution... ;-P
Another word. Qui prodest?
As well as other questions. Who could? Who was holding smoking gun? All pointing at RFia. ;-)
If they died... and RFia "had no motive to kill them" THE-E-E-EN... it must be Ukraine!!! Is that type of "Logic"(tm) you propose to use here? :-)))
\\Ability, motive, opportunity provide "reasons" triad.
Yes. Can you provide it for that "short list" of "killed by Ukraine's specops" victims of "Ukrainian homicidal regime"? %-)))
I am not big expert in Putin's killing list, but can show you how with easy.
Politkovskaya -- journalist, investigated crimes of Putin in Chechnia. Killed.
Litvinenko -- secret agent, who defected to the West with evidances of Putin's crimes. Killed. (the way ONLY government controled specops can do, to boot)
Nemtsov -- politician, who called Putin "f*ked". Killed. (demonstratively, in govrenment specops controlled zone near Kremlin)
Can you show something like that at least for ONE of that copy-pasted "short list".
14 July 2022 Center for Countering Disinformation published a list of persons accused of promoting messages similar to Russian propaganda. Journalist Glenn Greenwald, included in the list, called it "McCarthyite idiocy" and several other persons from the list rejected the accusation.[10][11] Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft criticized the list as a misstep from democratic values such as freedom of speech, an apparent attempt to discredit and silence political scientist John Mearsheimer and other U.S. and Western analysts with views differing from Ukrainian government.[12] The list of Russian propagandists was removed from the website of the Center for Countering Disinformation, but its copy is saved in the Internet Archive.[13]
On October 3, an updated list appeared on the Center's website.[14] It was available only in Ukrainian while sourcing non-Ukrainian sources, incorrectly assigned nationalities to members of the list, and has since been deleted.
Here's a List of Putin Critics Who've Ended up Dead - Business Insider www.businessinsider.com › News › International Here's a list of Putin critics who've ended up dead · Pavel Antov - December 2022 · Ravil Maganov - September 2022 · Dan Rapoport- August 2022.
US reveals claims of Russian 'kill list' if Moscow occupies Ukraine www.bbc.com › news › world-europe-60472889 The US says it has "credible information" that Russia is creating lists of Ukrainians to be killed.
List of journalists killed in Russia - Wikipedia en.wikipedia.org › wiki › List_of_journalists_ki... 1 February – Eduard Burmagin, Homicide. · 24 February – Leonid Grigoryev, Homicide [nJ]. · 8 March – Andrei Pivovarov, Homicide. · 31 March – Oleg Dolgantsev, ...
Updated: A list of oligarchs and Putin critics found dead since ... www.euronews.com › News › World A growing number of high-profile Russians have died under strange circumstances ever since President Vladimir Putin came to power.
\\...my argument is that the Ukrainians are no better.
And??? What is your *factual* arguments? Even if based on Russian propaganda copy-pasting. But yeah, there is none... because Russian propaganda ISN'T based on any facts. And you like it... it seems. ;-P
\\Maybe you should poll the residents of the region. Oh, wait... they already did.
Yeah... with AKs behind their backs. IS THAT how you DO see democratic and transparent plebiscite? Yes? Please, answer it. Openly and without hesitation.
Or what? Somebody holding AK behind your back, that you cannot do that? Then... wink. ;-P
President Joe Biden: "Russia's referenda are a sham. The United States stands with our partners around the world — and with every nation that respects the core tenets of the U.N. charter — in rejecting whatever fabricated outcomes Russia will announce".
I remember the Venezuelan election for Chavez in the early 2000's with the Guardia Naccional LITERALLY standing behind voters in the voter's booth with visibility of the ballots being cast. Jimmy Carter certified that election for the International Community.
Jimmy Carter certified Putin's sham referendums? Also, if a huge majority of Ukrainians want to join Russia who's fighting Russia? Why no reports of Ukrainian soldiers surrendering whenever given the chance?
\\You have evidence of AK's being pointed at voters in Ukraine? Please, produce it.
Actually. There is city Kherson. Where that "referenda" took place. But then, russian forces "willfully" leaved it.
There is lots of info about HOW that "referanda" was performed... from ordinary people.
BUT.
I very-very doubt it, that you'll listen for such evidances. Without trying to dissude em with "so what? that is ukrainian propaganda staged evidances".
So, why bother? Those who want evidances -- seek for them themself. Those who just want to "prove their point" -- will use ANY ways. No matter how illogical and contre-factual.
That is the fact that known to anyone who roaming through virtual space of WWW for long enough...
\\You have evidence of AK's being pointed at voters in Ukraine? Please, produce it.
Not just AKs. Torture chambers and death fields of tortured...
But, again, you would not listen to such evidances. Even though it all beyond obvious -- like, you can go to Google Maps and look for yourself scale of destruction, and where it exactly happens.
But... would you? I doubt it. You'll only seek for a way how to not agree. How to dismiss such evidances. So... go please yourself as much as you want. NMP. I'm already tired ot it.
\\WHo's fighting Russia? Geriatric conscripts and girls.
Is there a law forbiding volontiers to fight for their Motherland? Or some limitations because of age and/or gender??? Wadayatking here????
\\I wonder what will happen to Ukraine's military when their year is up.
Can you trace SOURCE of such info? ;-P Or... you just don't care, what propagandistic crap to cite??? Then, I can direct you to a "holly feeding ground" -- russsian sources, from which, with help of Google Translate, you'd be able to cite any crap you like.
Like, most popular among russians: that USA soon will fall, that hegemony of dollar will end, that Yellowstone Vulcano would errupt and destroy "that cursed lands"... and many-many other texts and videos that show how brave russians destroy USAians with their sophisticated weapon, their old fizzled nukes, bare hands, teeth... and et cetera, et cterera, et cetera.
Blogger Joe Conservative said... WHo's fighting Russia? Geriatric conscripts and girls. https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/09/ukraine-urged-to-take-humane-approach-as-men-try-to-flee-war
Rights and freedom Ukraine This article is more than 9 months old Ukraine urged to take ‘humane’ approach as men try to flee war This article is more than 9 months old UN calls for ‘compassionate’ approach to martial law, as aid workers report many men trying to leave were not born in Ukraine
Lorenzo Tondo @lorenzo_tondo Wed 9 Mar 2022 15.07 GMT The UN has urged Ukraine to take a “compassionate and humane” approach to the enforcement of martial law after reports of Ukrainian men defying orders to stay and attempting to cross into neighbouring countries to claim asylum.
Men of conscription age, aged 18 to 60, were banned from leaving Ukraine after the Russian invasion on 24 February but there have been multiple reports of men with Ukrainian citizenship trying to cross into Hungary, Poland and Romania. It is unclear how many have been allowed to pass.
One of most important traits of information -- relevance.
And to be relevant -- time is most important facet. ;-P
But... thank you for reminding me this covardice stance of USA. ;-P
I think you missed my point. Jimmy Carter "certified" Hugo Chavez's corrupt elections in Venezuela. Our State legislatures certified corrupt elections in the United States. Was Ukraine's occupied elections "fair"? Hell no. Power gets what power wants.
And yes, the articles posted were OLD. The point is that you can find evidence for your position wherever you want to to support your own "confirmation bias'" and you won't care where these "evidences" come from or how out-of-date they are.
I do not believe anything that I read in newspapers anymore or see in the "news". It's hyper-reality. Only what you yourself witness "in person" is "true".
And yes, the sooner you realize that the USA is cowardly and will sell you out for a nickel, the BETTER.
...and enjoy America's financial support while it lasts. I'm sure that our oligarchs are willing to spend the American people's last IOU in support of your cause, and thereby escape the humilation that would come from allowing Putin to occupy the box next to them at the opera.
\\I think you missed my point. Jimmy Carter "certified" Hugo Chavez's corrupt elections in Venezuela.
NMP.
\\Our State legislatures certified corrupt elections in the United States.
Ehmm... Douh... NMP. ;-P
\\Was Ukraine's occupied elections "fair"? Hell no. Power gets what power wants.
Whatever. Why you oppose your "power grabbers" then?
\\And yes, the articles posted were OLD. The point is that you can find evidence for your position wherever you want to to support your own "confirmation bias'" and you won't care where these "evidences" come from or how out-of-date they are.
Little problem here. I seeking only evidances to DISPROVE my stance. ;-P So, that is "disconfirmation bias" in MY case. :-)))
\\I do not believe anything that I read in newspapers anymore or see in the "news". It's hyper-reality. Only what you yourself witness "in person" is "true".
Too bad. Matrix has you, Neo.
\\And yes, the sooner you realize that the USA is cowardly and will sell you out for a nickel, the BETTER.
Whatever. I am not decision maker anyway. :-)
\\...and enjoy America's financial support while it lasts.
But I do not see anything new in my wallet. Poor me. :-(((
\\ I'm sure that our oligarchs are willing to spend the American people's last IOU in support of your cause, and thereby escape the humilation that would come from allowing Putin to occupy the box next to them at the opera.
Your oligarchs wanna invest into my idea... WHERE????? :-)))))))))
Look to the Deep State. They've just realized yet the truth.
The obscene Master (Trump) is not a direct reaction to the failure of the traditional Master (UniParty/Biden). This figure is a reaction to the fact that expert knowledge, pure technocracy, cannot properly function (on its' own). It has to be supplemented by the figure of a NEW Master. - Slavoj Zizek
The Paris events of 1968 were observed sympathetically by Jacques Lacan, who had a longstanding commitment to refusing to accept any pregiven order, and whose own son-in-law/heir (Jacques-Alain Miller) and daughter became members of the Maoist Gauche prolétarienne. However, the role he took up is described by Elisabeth Roudinesco as that of the ‘stern father’ who always knew better, in a way that might be construed as authoritarian, than did the revolutionaries themselves. ‘As revolutionaries, what you long for is a master,’ he told them; ‘You’ll get one …’ More importantly, perhaps, Lacan distinguished between totalitarian revolutionary movements — in which he included Maoism — and the truly revolutionary movement of Freudianism (at least as refracted by Lacan). The key issue here was that of the ‘pas-tout (not-whole)’: the Freudian revolution is that which has no ambitions to total knowledge, but allows for the fallen, divided subject. Without this pas-tout, there will always be demand for a master. Hence the parallel (failed?) Lacanian revolution of the time: the passe or famous ‘self-authorizing’ procedure for becoming a psychoanalyst. This chapter looks at Lacan’s actions and arguments of the time and examines these relationships between posturing, mastery, and radical reconfiguration.
Either of two. This is nonsense. Or. I just that miserly prol, not equipped to grasp such blazing wisdoms. ;-)
\\ The point is that you can find evidence for your position wherever you want to to support your own "confirmation bias'" and you won't care where these "evidences" come from or how out-of-date they are.
Isn't it (historical, and anti-fragile, as you claim) reality, that while after beginning of RFia's offensive against Ukraine they was: in Kherson, near Kiev, almost around Kharkiv... and from that times they only lose, lose and lose that their still not deceasive gaines???
Or that is just my biased illusory "believing to your lying eyes" pink elephant pooping with unicornes pooping with rainbows???
And REAL TRUTH is what Russian Propaganda saying... that they keep marching from one Victory to another!!!!
That is just result of information uncriticisingly consumed.
Like, one heard something about country in Africa, where very rich people people leave. But though being rich, they are easy going and lighthearted, and very truthful.
As that information is not important for that one everyday life. He memorises it without questionin it much.
But then... some spam mail dropping into his inbox. Letter from a rich man, supposedly from that country. And he belives it. Without second thought and hesitation. Because he "know" it, that there somewhere do live such people, who ready do give their millions to a stranger. ;-P
I think... that this is staunch miscommunictation. Or... I just unable to phatome your blazing iriny.
My ref was to that story of one Chinese survivor of massacres (he would not be able to tell his story if he'd not survived, I suppose)
He tell, that in a moment of biggest struggle, that pushed his self-preservation instint to a brink... he started dreaming about being butterfly, to which came weird dream about being human...
They say that many women surviving attacks by Janjaweed militias who killed all men and children dreamed the same dream... and survived. Only nobody wanted to hear their stories of rapes/ murders.
Sure. There is often no "justice" that will result from you "telling your story" (as a man or a "Life of Pi" Tiger). There is only the tragic "just is" that you have to live with And either your, or the tiger's, story will do. It's why there are still so many common myth's today.
I prefer Ben Franklin's approach to "war stories".
from "The First of May, A New Song in Praise of Saint Tammany ...As old age came on, he grew blind, deaf and dumb, Tho' his sport ‘twere hard to keep from it, Quite tired of life, bid adieu to his wife, And blaz' d like the tail of a comit, my brave boys. What country on earth, then did ever give birth, To such a magnanimous saint? His acts far excel all that history tell, And language too feeble to paint, my brave boys. Now to finish my song, a full flowing bowl; I'll quaff' and sing the long day, And with punch and wine paint my cheeks for my saint, And hail ev'ry first of Sweet May, my brave boys."
The Butterfly Dream - The Philosophy Foundation www.philosophy-foundation.org › view › the-b... Chuang Tzu was a philosopher in ancient China, who, one night went to sleep and dreamed that he was a butterfly. He dreamt that he was flying around from flower ...
Beat me, but I cannot connect the dots between THIS and that flick from Simpsons(tm). ;-P
\\\\Was Chuang Tzu dreaming of vengeance/ vengeful butterflies?
\\Or would that just be you, Q?
Your attempt to build up my "theory of mind" failed, it seems.
Like my of you.
That is what they call "miscommunication" mean. AFAIK. But I can be wrong, of course.
\\Nietzsche, "The Use and Abuse of History for Life"
So, History DO NOT exist?
Or... there NO truth or anyhow truthful, even if it material evidances???
Or what?
PS I think I was careful, while possible not that masterful, with connecting dots in my screeds here. Can I ask to show to me some of such courtesy in return?
\\Blogger Joe Conservative said... When it comes to Russia/ Ukraine you do have a bias, and a reason for it. I have more "ironic distance" from the conflict. You are Pyle. I am Joker.
That is not problem with my bias. Only with your lack of erudition. That's all.
Well, that is not like I inclined to mentor you, or pass a blame, or whatever.
I just pointing to that obvious stumbling block in our conversations...
What is there to say? Americans are said to be pragmatists. IMO, Ukraine has fallen for the words of our IC. But our IC has no legitimate authority to speak for the American people. So, Ukraine will suffer, and Ukrainians will die. I'm sorry. We are no longer in control of our IC. Politicians are no longer in control of our IC. The USIC is in control of them, and election cycles are few and far between.
As Tennyson said...
...There in a secret olive-glade I saw Pallas Athene climbing from the bath In anger; yet one glittering foot disturb’d The lucid well; one snowy knee was prest Against the margin flowers; a dreadful light Came from her golden hair, her golden helm And all her golden armor on the grass, And from her virgin breast, and virgin eyes Remaining fixt on mine, till mine grew dark For ever, and I heard a voice that said “Henceforth be blind, for thou hast seen too much, And speak the truth that no man may believe.” Son, in the hidden world of sight that lives Behind this darkness, I behold her still Beyond all work of those who carve the stone Beyond all dreams of Godlike womanhood, Ineffable beauty, out of whom, at a glance And as it were, perforce, upon me flash’d The power of prophesying—but to me No power—so chain’d and coupled with the curse Of blindness and their unbelief who heard And heard not, when I spake of famine, plague Shrine-shattering earthquake, fire, flood, thunderbolt, And angers of the Gods for evil done And expiation lack’d—no power on Fate Theirs, or mine own! for when the crowd would roar For blood, for war, whose issue was their doom, To cast wise words among the multitude Was flinging fruit to lions; nor, in hours Of civil outbreak, when I knew the twain Would each waste each, and bring on both the yoke Of stronger states, was mine the voice to curb The madness of our cities and their kings. Who ever turn’d upon his heel to hear My warning that the tyranny of one Was prelude to the tyranny of all? My counsel that the tyranny of all Led backward to the tyranny of one? This power hath work’d no good to aught that lives And these blind hands were useless in their wars. O therefore, that the unfulfill’d desire, The grief for ever born from griefs to be The boundless yearning of the prophet’s heart— Could that stand forth, and like a statue, rear’d To some great citizen, win all praise from all Who past it, saying, “That was he!” In vain! Virtue must shape itself in deed, and those Whom weakness or necessity have cramp’d Within themselves, immerging, each, his urn In his own well, draws solace as he may. Menœceus, thou hast eyes, and I can hear Too plainly what full tides of onset sap Our seven high gates, and what a weight of war Rides on those ringing axles! jingle of bits, Shouts, arrows, tramp of the horn-footed horse That grind the glebe to powder! Stony showers Of that ear-stunning hail of Arês crash Along the sounding walls. Above, below Shock after shock, the song-built towers and gates Reel, bruised and butted with the shuddering War-thunder of iron rams; and from within The city comes a murmur void of joy, Lest she be taken captive—maidens, wives, And mothers with their babblers of the dawn, And oldest age in shadow from the night, Falling about their shrines before their Gods, And wailing, “Save us.” And they wail to thee! These eyeless eyes, that cannot see thine own, See this, that only in thy virtue lies The saving of our Thebes;...
That's... up to you to decide. I (and hardly anybody in the world... as for today) have brain capacity to imagine what would you say instead of you.
That's why conversations is still so damn puzzling and interesting
\\Americans are said to be pragmatists.
That can be prejudges. ;-)
\\IMO, Ukraine has fallen for the words of our IC.
Eeeee???? How?
\\But our IC has no legitimate authority to speak for the American people.
Whatever.
\\So, Ukraine will suffer, and Ukrainians will die.
...in a fight. As free men and women.
Bur well, again, far-far not that much as they was dying and could die while being slaves. I dunno why this simple truth avoids your attention so much.
\\I'm sorry.
Like that is your fault. I do not see how it can be. Well, your higherups screwed it in some parts... but in comparation with... RFia for example -- that pledged "love and friendhip, and brotherhood"... and did, you know what yourself.
UA and USA was not even allies. Well, except for Budapesht Memorandum.
\\ We are no longer in control of our IC.
NMP.
\\ Politicians are no longer in control of our IC.
NMP. Do you REALLY want it'll become problem of foreigners??? For them to try to fix it, instead of you??????
\\ The USIC is in control of them, and election cycles are few and far between.
\\As Tennyson said...
Sorry. I'm not into poetry in general. And to phatome one in English... seems like still too early fer me. :-(
\\The Ukraining oligarchs chose suicide.
We already have discussed this.
And we did not agree neither about very definition -- who this "oligarchs" are? Nor about their role.
\\ The Ukrainian people are their Jonestown coolaid victims.
That is what "soverenity and independence" of any nation stands for, isn't it?
\\What is there to say? /That's why conversations is still so damn puzzling and interesting
...we often say what we think, instead of parroting the thoughts of 'others'.
\\IMO, Ukraine has fallen for the words of our IC. /Eeeee???? How?
You think that we will support you, but when the going gets rough, you'll find yourselves alone. Look to Afghanistan. America has no "staying power". Our resolve waxes and wanes with election cycles. Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. And IC bureaucrats policies will blow with the winds, for they have a credo, "Always Cover Yer Ass". Zelenskyy will be their "fall guy".
\\So, Ukraine will suffer, and Ukrainians will die. /...in a fight. As free men and women. Bur well, again, far-far not that much as they was dying and could die while being slaves. I dunno why this simple truth avoids your attention so much.
Isaiah Berlin, "Letter to George Kennan":
The whole of that morality, which is most prominent in the nineteenth century, in particular in the romantic period, but implicit in both Christian and Jewish writings, and far less present in the pagan world, rests on the view that it is a marvellous thing in itself when a man pits himself against the world, and sacrifices himself to an ideal without reckoning the consequences, even when we consider his ideal false and its consequences disastrous. We admire purity of motive as such, and think it a wonderful thing--or at any rate deeply impressive, perhaps to be fought but never despised--when somebody throws away material advantage, reputation etc. for the sake of bearing witness to something which he believes to be true, however mistaken and fanatical we may think him to be. I do not say that we worship passionate self-abandonment or automatically prefer a desperate fanaticism to moderation and enlightened self-interest. Of course not; yet nevertheless we do think such conduct deeply moving, even when misdirected. We admire it always more than calculation; we at least understand the kind of aesthetic splendour which all defiance has for some people--Carlyle, Nietzsche, Leontiev [Konstantin Nikolaevich Leontiev, nineteenth-century Russian philosopher and critic] and Fascists generally. We think that only those human beings are a credit to their kind who do not let themselves be pushed too far by the forces of nature or history, either passively or by glorying in their own impotence; and we idealise only those who have purposes for which they accept responsibility, on which they stake something, and at times everything; living consciously and bravely for whatever they think good, i.e. worth living and, in the last resort, dying for.
All this may seem an enormous platitude, but, if it is true, this is, of course, what ultimately refutes utilitarianism and what makes Hegel and Marx such monstrous traitors to our civilisation....
Continued... Ivan Karamazov cannot be totally exorcised; he speaks for us all, and this I take to be your point, and the foundation of your optimism. What I take you to say, and what I should have said myself if I had had the wit or the depth, is that the one thing which no utilitarian paradise, no promise of eternal harmony in the future within some vast organic whole will make us accept is the use of human beings as mere means--the doctoring of them until they are made to do what they do, not for the sake of the purposes which are their purposes, fulfilment of hopes which however foolish or desperate are at least their own, but for reasons which only we, the manipulators, who freely twist them for our purposes, can understand. What horrifies one about Soviet or Nazi practice is not merely the suffering and the cruelty, since although that is bad enough, it is something which history has produced too often, and to ignore its apparent inevitability is perhaps real Utopianism--no; what turns one inside out, and is indescribable, is the spectacle of one set of persons who so tamper and "get at" others that the others do their will without knowing what they are doing; and in this lose their status as free human beings, indeed as human beings at all.
\\I'm sorry. /Like that is your fault. I do not see how it can be. Well, your higherups screwed it in some parts... but in comparation with... RFia for example -- that pledged "love and friendhip, and brotherhood"... and did, you know what yourself. UA and USA was not even allies. Well, except for Budapesht Memorandum.
Which is why you'll end up under their "bus".
\\ We are no longer in control of our IC. /NMP. \\ Politicians are no longer in control of our IC. /NMP.
It will become you problem. When we re-establish control (if ever), all support for Ukraine will vanish into thin air. You will not see another dollar spent upon Ukraines defense. As you have acknowledged, we have no treaty commitments to you that will be honoured. The groundwork establishing our "contractual" support has not been constructed.
Do you REALLY want it'll become problem of foreigners??? For them to try to fix it, instead of you??????
No. It's our responsibility, just as your dispute with Russia is yours.
\\As Tennyson said... Sorry. I'm not into poetry in general. And to phatome one in English... seems like still too early fer me. :-(
Hope springs eternal. :)
\\The Ukraining oligarchs chose suicide. /We already have discussed this. And we did not agree neither about very definition -- who this "oligarchs" are? Nor about their role.
I use the term as Plato uses it in "Republic". Those with wealth and influence (but lacking in honour).
\\ The Ukrainian people are their Jonestown coolaid victims. /That is what "soverenity and independence" of any nation stands for, isn't it?
Yes. But you are better off with Ukrainian independence and a Russian alliance for now. Our system of global capitalism (which your oligarch's seek to join) will soon fail "catastrophically". Those who have distanced themselves from it will best survive its' demise. We are in for hard times ahead when the world de-corporatizes and de-globalises. The price for continued economic "aggregate efficiencies" upon freedom and liberty will prove far to steep.
Sorry if this sounds too much like "prophesy" from an aging Tiresias.
\\\\IMO, Ukraine has fallen for the words of our IC. /Eeeee???? How?
\\You think that we will support you, but when the going gets rough, you'll find yourselves alone.
Old news. That was when Biden tryed to propose to Zelemsky to flee. While giving nothing more then a bunch of Javvelons and .5 ammo. Today he gives Abramses. And preparing to give F-16s. And to forsake Ukraine NOW -- will be ENORMOUS lose for USA. Lose you freakingly CANNOT afford. And your DC residents freakingly KNOW IT. And what is more important -- YOUR ENEMIES KNOW IT.
\\Look to Afghanistan.
Pft. :-))) Trump's "negotiations" with Un was much more important.
\\America has no "staying power". Our resolve waxes and wanes with election cycles. Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. And IC bureaucrats policies will blow with the winds, for they have a credo, "Always Cover Yer Ass". Zelenskyy will be their "fall guy".
That is LIFE und DEATH situation. For USA. Like it was for Britain in 1940. After their inavility to help France. Ukraine is your France. TODAY. Question is only... are your Biden -- Churchil, or still miserable Chemberlain???
\\Continued... Ivan Karamazov
Ehm???
\\Which is why you'll end up under their "bus".
You still do not know history of Ukraine.
\\It will become you problem.
Like when? When World Global Government will emerge? :-)))
\\No. It's our responsibility, just as your dispute with Russia is yours.
Naah. It's all YOUR, USA duty, my beauty. ;-P
Either this... or (un)conditional surrender. Tertium non datur.(tm)
For Ukraine... that is only question -- on which side to take part in ww3. And choice is beyond obvious. Only on the side od West Ukraine have some chances to live. Same as it was with Jews. Did you know, that in the beginning, in Germany, there was ethnic Jews that tryed to became Nazis. They gone with a smoke FIRST.
\\I use the term as Plato uses it in "Republic". Those with wealth and influence (but lacking in honour).
Too vague. As there always, in any society there is people who have more wealth and/or more influance. Paradox of HEAP -- what amount of "oligarchs" is bad? Remember?
\\Yes. But you are better off with Ukrainian independence and a Russian alliance for now. Our system of global capitalism (which your oligarch's seek to join) will soon fail "catastrophically". Those who have distanced themselves from it will best survive its' demise. We are in for hard times ahead when the world de-corporatizes and de-globalises. The price for continued economic "aggregate efficiencies" upon freedom and liberty will prove far to steep.
\\Sorry if this sounds too much like "prophesy" from an aging Tiresias.
Hallo, we are in WW3 beginning chapters TODAY. Not in some dream of hopster about World og Future.
Same as it was with Jews. Did you know, that in the beginning, in Germany, there was ethnic Jews that tryed to became Nazis. They gone with a smoke FIRST.
This was no accident. Rather, it was part of a Nazi-led propaganda blitz called Operation Himmler, a ploy Tolischus bought without flinching. At that crucial moment, in the lead story of the New York Times’ edition for that day, Tolischus printed the entirety of Hitler’s speech to the Reichstag justifying his invasion of Poland. He reported not a single word of response by a Polish official.
Strange feeling... like I percieved something very similar. Recently. And before too.
103 comments:
Wikipedia: Scott Ritter writes various articles critical of NATO for the Russian channel RT (formerly Russia Today). In July 2022, Ritter was added to a list of pro-Russia propagandists compiled by the Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation.
More proof Putin has many puppets.
Ritter is also on Ukraine's "Kill List". ;)
They don't like child sex predators?
They don't like truth tellers.
They should have no problem with Ritter then.
Then why's he on their Kill List? Is that who killed Jeffrey Epstein? Ukrainians?
Scott Ritter himself admits there is no "kill list".
Quote: ...the Center for Countering Disinformation announced the existence of [a] list of "information terrorists" who deserved to be arrested and prosecuted as "war criminals". At the time, I cautioned that the use of such inflammatory language meant that the "blacklist" could be turned into a "kill list" simply by having a fanatic decide to take justice into his or her own hands. End Quote
No "kill list". Only a list of liars. And Ritter whining about being called out as a liar.
I don't know who killed Jeffrey Epstein. Likely Jeffrey Epstein. Or Bill Barr ordered him killed to protect dotard donald.
I don't listen to Scott Ritter when he speaks outside of his field of expertise, and even then I'm not interested in how to get a child to meet up for sex.
Ritter notes that they all supported H.R. 7691, “The Additional Supplemental Appropriations Act of 2022,” which provides funding for the Ukrainian government, and its Center for Countering Disinformation.
As a constituent whose name has appeared on a so-called “blacklist” published by the Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation,” Ritter wrote, “my personal and professional life has been, and continues to be, detrimentally impacted by the chilling effect of being labeled a “Russian propagandist” for simply exercising the right to free speech guaranteed by the United States Constitution. Moreover, Ukraine has a history of converting “blacklists” of this nature into “kill lists,” where those who speak out against the policies of the Ukrainian government are being murdered or threatened with violence.
I am certain you agree with me that Congress cannot be in a position where, through its actions, foreign governments are provided the means to intimidate citizens of the United States from exercising their Constitutionally protected rights regarding free speech….
Congress cannot be allowed to bypass Constitutionally imposed constraints on its actions by allowing a foreign government to do that which would not be permitted here in the United States. By paying the salaries of the civil servants employed by the Ukrainian Center for Countering Disinformation, who have prepared and disseminated the so-called “blacklist,” you and your fellow Senators and Representatives appear to be doing just that—allowing the government of Ukraine to suppress the right of free speech guaranteed to United States citizens under the Constitution.
Characterize it however you like... but it's still a kill list.
...especially after the people listed on it... start getting killed.
Scott Ritter's free speech rights have been suppressed? Must explain why we're discussing him exercising his free speech rights. As opposed to Ritter the Russian propagandist getting kicked off YouTube. If he were a Russian living in Russia and telling the truth he'd be in prison or dead already.
If you're so opposed to "kill lists" why did you publish one on this blog?
Is anyone on my "kill list" dead?
Your list could be turned into a "kill list" simply by having a fanatic decide to take justice into his or her own hands. Characterize it however you like... but it's still a kill list.
Yeah, and a pot could get melted down and used as a mortar casing, that doesn't make a pot an ED.
Ukraine's list has a non-random number of dead people on it.
Anything is possible when you substitute reality with your imagination.
You can put actual rocks into your head? I believe it!
;P
\\Ritter is also on Ukraine's "Kill List". ;)
And who from that list was actually killed? By Ukrainians (over-important clarification).
\\Ukraine's list has a non-random number of dead people on it.
Examples! Examples! Examples!
Oles Bouzina, Andrea Rocchelli, Zemfira Soulaeïmanova, Andreï Stenine, Igor Korneliouk, Anton Volochine, and more recently Daria Douguina.
:P
Peter Schweizer issued a "kill list" in book form. A trumpturd travelled to Nancy Pelosi's house looking for her and attacked her husband with a hammer. donald tRump called for his own VP to be killed. Fanatics took take justice into their own hands and chanted "hang Mike Pence" while they stormed the Capitol.
A Canadian right-winger came down from Canada and attacked Paul Pelosi after reading a book? Who knew?
Fanatics used their "This is Art" gallows on Mike Pence? Do tell...
I don't know what Paul Pelosi's attacker read or didn't read. He didn't target Nancy Pelosi for no reason, though. Peter Schweizer's kill list was part of the demonization of Nancy Pelosi that lead to her husband being attacked.
Calling for someone to be hung isn't "art". If I went to Mike Pence's home with a fake bomb labeled "art" and chanted "kill Mike Pence" the Secret Service might have a problem with my actions. Even if I stayed on the sidewalk. If I started breaking in I think they'd pay attention to my threats.
I heard that the attacker was Paul Pelosi's gay sex toy. Bodycam's confirm that Paul Pelosi was no "hostage".
You heard wrong.
No, I think I heard the truth.
Only because you believe laughable bullshit to be "the truth". No such bodycam footage exists.
I have bad news.
That Ritter is on the salary from Kremlin. ;-P He giving interviews on Russian TV, and do it in Russian, and saying what benefitial for Putin.
\\\\Examples! Examples! Examples!
\\Oles Bouzina, Andrea Rocchelli, Zemfira Soulaeïmanova, Andreï Stenine, Igor Korneliouk, Anton Volochine, and more recently Daria Douguina.
Oh, I see. They tried to pack it tightly, to make it look like a "big list of crimes".
"Big list" I heard before was much shorter.
Well, can you give at least short summary to each -- why it is so important... and damning???
You know. People dying all the time. And for veriety of reasons.
Because, AFAR as I know.
Oles Bouzina -- that was some misfortunate result of private brawl
Andrea Rocchelli -- incident on a frontline, sad but nothing rare.
And I think all other was of similar style -- doubtful, at best. Or even staged and performed by RFia's secret services.
For example.
Daria Douguina -- that is clearly "hand of Kremlin". You should be heard how RFia's secret servics THEMSELF reported HOW CLOSELY they was following "terrorists" who "did it"... just to miss em. ;-P
Screaming about setup.
And in style of RFia's "silovoki" -- who like to make such public actions/executions.
Like Nemtsov execution... ;-P
Another word.
Qui prodest?
As well as other questions. Who could? Who was holding smoking gun?
All pointing at RFia. ;-)
...only RFia had no motive to kill them.
Ability, motive, opportunity provide "reasons" triad.
\\...only RFia had no motive to kill them.
If they died... and RFia "had no motive to kill them" THE-E-E-EN... it must be Ukraine!!!
Is that type of "Logic"(tm) you propose to use here? :-)))
\\Ability, motive, opportunity provide "reasons" triad.
Yes.
Can you provide it for that "short list" of "killed by Ukraine's specops" victims of "Ukrainian homicidal regime"? %-)))
I am not big expert in Putin's killing list, but can show you how with easy.
Politkovskaya -- journalist, investigated crimes of Putin in Chechnia. Killed.
Litvinenko -- secret agent, who defected to the West with evidances of Putin's crimes. Killed. (the way ONLY government controled specops can do, to boot)
Nemtsov -- politician, who called Putin "f*ked". Killed. (demonstratively, in govrenment specops controlled zone near Kremlin)
Can you show something like that at least for ONE of that copy-pasted "short list".
14 July 2022 Center for Countering Disinformation published a list of persons accused of promoting messages similar to Russian propaganda. Journalist Glenn Greenwald, included in the list, called it "McCarthyite idiocy" and several other persons from the list rejected the accusation.[10][11] Quincy Institute for Responsible Statecraft criticized the list as a misstep from democratic values such as freedom of speech, an apparent attempt to discredit and silence political scientist John Mearsheimer and other U.S. and Western analysts with views differing from Ukrainian government.[12] The list of Russian propagandists was removed from the website of the Center for Countering Disinformation, but its copy is saved in the Internet Archive.[13]
On October 3, an updated list appeared on the Center's website.[14] It was available only in Ukrainian while sourcing non-Ukrainian sources, incorrectly assigned nationalities to members of the list, and has since been deleted.
Show me the list... show me the list...
Feh... you trying to subvert and derail it. Bleh... that's not interesting.
I can do lazy ass copy-pasting too. ;-P
Here's a List of Putin Critics Who've Ended up Dead - Business Insider
www.businessinsider.com › News › International
Here's a list of Putin critics who've ended up dead · Pavel Antov - December 2022 · Ravil Maganov - September 2022 · Dan Rapoport- August 2022.
US reveals claims of Russian 'kill list' if Moscow occupies Ukraine
www.bbc.com › news › world-europe-60472889
The US says it has "credible information" that Russia is creating lists of Ukrainians to be killed.
List of journalists killed in Russia - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org › wiki › List_of_journalists_ki...
1 February – Eduard Burmagin, Homicide. · 24 February – Leonid Grigoryev, Homicide [nJ]. · 8 March – Andrei Pivovarov, Homicide. · 31 March – Oleg Dolgantsev, ...
Updated: A list of oligarchs and Putin critics found dead since ...
www.euronews.com › News › World
A growing number of high-profile Russians have died under strange circumstances ever since President Vladimir Putin came to power.
Enough? Or I can continue and continue. ;-P
My argument isn't that "Putin isn't bad" or doesn't kill his opponents, my argument is that the Ukrainians are no better.
How is a desire for self determination "just as bad"? Putin does not want self determination for Ukrainians or Russians.
...just Russians living IN Ukraine.
...or I should say, "the FORMER Ukraine".
Both of your comments= 🐂 💩
Maybe you should poll the residents of the region. Oh, wait... they already did.
\\...my argument is that the Ukrainians are no better.
And???
What is your *factual* arguments?
Even if based on Russian propaganda copy-pasting. But yeah, there is none... because Russian propaganda ISN'T based on any facts.
And you like it... it seems. ;-P
\\Maybe you should poll the residents of the region. Oh, wait... they already did.
Yeah... with AKs behind their backs. IS THAT how you DO see democratic and transparent plebiscite? Yes?
Please, answer it. Openly and without hesitation.
Or what? Somebody holding AK behind your back, that you cannot do that?
Then... wink. ;-P
President Joe Biden: "Russia's referenda are a sham. The United States stands with our partners around the world — and with every nation that respects the core tenets of the U.N. charter — in rejecting whatever fabricated outcomes Russia will announce".
You have evidence of AK's being pointed at voters in Ukraine? Please, produce it.
I remember the Venezuelan election for Chavez in the early 2000's with the Guardia Naccional LITERALLY standing behind voters in the voter's booth with visibility of the ballots being cast. Jimmy Carter certified that election for the International Community.
Jimmy Carter certified Putin's sham referendums? Also, if a huge majority of Ukrainians want to join Russia who's fighting Russia? Why no reports of Ukrainian soldiers surrendering whenever given the chance?
WHo's fighting Russia? Geriatric conscripts and girls.
I wonder what will happen to Ukraine's military when their year is up.
\\You have evidence of AK's being pointed at voters in Ukraine? Please, produce it.
Actually. There is city Kherson. Where that "referenda" took place.
But then, russian forces "willfully" leaved it.
There is lots of info about HOW that "referanda" was performed...
from ordinary people.
BUT.
I very-very doubt it, that you'll listen for such evidances.
Without trying to dissude em with "so what? that is ukrainian propaganda staged evidances".
So, why bother? Those who want evidances -- seek for them themself.
Those who just want to "prove their point" -- will use ANY ways. No matter how illogical and contre-factual.
That is the fact that known to anyone who roaming through virtual space of WWW for long enough...
\\You have evidence of AK's being pointed at voters in Ukraine? Please, produce it.
Not just AKs.
Torture chambers and death fields of tortured...
But, again, you would not listen to such evidances.
Even though it all beyond obvious -- like, you can go to Google Maps and look for yourself scale of destruction, and where it exactly happens.
But... would you? I doubt it.
You'll only seek for a way how to not agree. How to dismiss such evidances.
So... go please yourself as much as you want. NMP. I'm already tired ot it.
\\WHo's fighting Russia? Geriatric conscripts and girls.
Is there a law forbiding volontiers to fight for their Motherland?
Or some limitations because of age and/or gender???
Wadayatking here????
\\I wonder what will happen to Ukraine's military when their year is up.
Can you trace SOURCE of such info? ;-P
Or... you just don't care, what propagandistic crap to cite???
Then, I can direct you to a "holly feeding ground" -- russsian sources, from which, with help of Google Translate, you'd be able to cite any crap you like.
Like, most popular among russians: that USA soon will fall, that hegemony of dollar will end, that Yellowstone Vulcano would errupt and destroy "that cursed lands"... and many-many other texts and videos that show how brave russians destroy USAians with their sophisticated weapon, their old fizzled nukes, bare hands, teeth... and et cetera, et cterera, et cetera.
Blogger Joe Conservative said...
WHo's fighting Russia? Geriatric conscripts and girls.
https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2022/mar/09/ukraine-urged-to-take-humane-approach-as-men-try-to-flee-war
Rights and freedom
Ukraine
This article is more than 9 months old
Ukraine urged to take ‘humane’ approach as men try to flee war
This article is more than 9 months old
UN calls for ‘compassionate’ approach to martial law, as aid workers report many men trying to leave were not born in Ukraine
Lorenzo Tondo
@lorenzo_tondo
Wed 9 Mar 2022 15.07 GMT
The UN has urged Ukraine to take a “compassionate and humane” approach to the enforcement of martial law after reports of Ukrainian men defying orders to stay and attempting to cross into neighbouring countries to claim asylum.
Men of conscription age, aged 18 to 60, were banned from leaving Ukraine after the Russian invasion on 24 February but there have been multiple reports of men with Ukrainian citizenship trying to cross into Hungary, Poland and Romania. It is unclear how many have been allowed to pass.
One of most important traits of information -- relevance.
And to be relevant -- time is most important facet. ;-P
But... thank you for reminding me this covardice stance of USA. ;-P
I think you missed my point. Jimmy Carter "certified" Hugo Chavez's corrupt elections in Venezuela. Our State legislatures certified corrupt elections in the United States. Was Ukraine's occupied elections "fair"? Hell no. Power gets what power wants.
And yes, the articles posted were OLD. The point is that you can find evidence for your position wherever you want to to support your own "confirmation bias'" and you won't care where these "evidences" come from or how out-of-date they are.
I do not believe anything that I read in newspapers anymore or see in the "news". It's hyper-reality. Only what you yourself witness "in person" is "true".
And yes, the sooner you realize that the USA is cowardly and will sell you out for a nickel, the BETTER.
...and enjoy America's financial support while it lasts. I'm sure that our oligarchs are willing to spend the American people's last IOU in support of your cause, and thereby escape the humilation that would come from allowing Putin to occupy the box next to them at the opera.
\\I think you missed my point. Jimmy Carter "certified" Hugo Chavez's corrupt elections in Venezuela.
NMP.
\\Our State legislatures certified corrupt elections in the United States.
Ehmm... Douh... NMP. ;-P
\\Was Ukraine's occupied elections "fair"? Hell no. Power gets what power wants.
Whatever.
Why you oppose your "power grabbers" then?
\\And yes, the articles posted were OLD. The point is that you can find evidence for your position wherever you want to to support your own "confirmation bias'" and you won't care where these "evidences" come from or how out-of-date they are.
Little problem here.
I seeking only evidances to DISPROVE my stance. ;-P
So, that is "disconfirmation bias" in MY case. :-)))
\\I do not believe anything that I read in newspapers anymore or see in the "news". It's hyper-reality. Only what you yourself witness "in person" is "true".
Too bad.
Matrix has you, Neo.
\\And yes, the sooner you realize that the USA is cowardly and will sell you out for a nickel, the BETTER.
Whatever.
I am not decision maker anyway. :-)
\\...and enjoy America's financial support while it lasts.
But I do not see anything new in my wallet. Poor me. :-(((
\\ I'm sure that our oligarchs are willing to spend the American people's last IOU in support of your cause, and thereby escape the humilation that would come from allowing Putin to occupy the box next to them at the opera.
Your oligarchs wanna invest into my idea... WHERE????? :-)))))))))
Look to the Deep State. They've just realized yet the truth.
The obscene Master (Trump) is not a direct reaction to the failure of the traditional Master (UniParty/Biden). This figure is a reaction to the fact that expert knowledge, pure technocracy, cannot properly function (on its' own). It has to be supplemented by the figure of a NEW Master. - Slavoj Zizek
‘As revolutionaries, what you long for is a master,’ he (Lacan) told them; ‘You’ll get one …’
The Deep State is so pas-tout.
The Paris events of 1968 were observed sympathetically by Jacques Lacan, who had a longstanding commitment to refusing to accept any pregiven order, and whose own son-in-law/heir (Jacques-Alain Miller) and daughter became members of the Maoist Gauche prolétarienne. However, the role he took up is described by Elisabeth Roudinesco as that of the ‘stern father’ who always knew better, in a way that might be construed as authoritarian, than did the revolutionaries themselves. ‘As revolutionaries, what you long for is a master,’ he told them; ‘You’ll get one …’ More importantly, perhaps, Lacan distinguished between totalitarian revolutionary movements — in which he included Maoism — and the truly revolutionary movement of Freudianism (at least as refracted by Lacan). The key issue here was that of the ‘pas-tout (not-whole)’: the Freudian revolution is that which has no ambitions to total knowledge, but allows for the fallen, divided subject. Without this pas-tout, there will always be demand for a master. Hence the parallel (failed?) Lacanian revolution of the time: the passe or famous ‘self-authorizing’ procedure for becoming a psychoanalyst. This chapter looks at Lacan’s actions and arguments of the time and examines these relationships between posturing, mastery, and radical reconfiguration.
Pas-tout. Imcompleteness which can never be completed.
Either of two.
This is nonsense.
Or.
I just that miserly prol, not equipped to grasp such blazing wisdoms. ;-)
\\ The point is that you can find evidence for your position wherever you want to to support your own "confirmation bias'" and you won't care where these "evidences" come from or how out-of-date they are.
Isn't it (historical, and anti-fragile, as you claim) reality, that while after beginning of RFia's offensive against Ukraine they was:
in Kherson, near Kiev, almost around Kharkiv...
and from that times they only lose, lose and lose that their still not deceasive gaines???
Or that is just my biased illusory "believing to your lying eyes" pink elephant pooping with unicornes pooping with rainbows???
And REAL TRUTH is what Russian Propaganda saying... that they keep marching from one Victory to another!!!!
And I am dreaming butterfly... :-)))))))))))
I have a working hypothesis about it.
That is just result of information uncriticisingly consumed.
Like, one heard something about country in Africa, where very rich people people leave. But though being rich, they are easy going and lighthearted, and very truthful.
As that information is not important for that one everyday life. He memorises it without questionin it much.
But then...
some spam mail dropping into his inbox.
Letter from a rich man, supposedly from that country.
And he belives it. Without second thought and hesitation. Because he "know" it, that there somewhere do live such people, who ready do give their millions to a stranger. ;-P
Or.
I just that miserly prol, not equipped to grasp such blazing wisdoms. ;-)
:0
And I am dreaming butterfly... :-)))))))))))
Farfalla vendetta!
I have a working hypothesis about it.
...“There’s a sucker born every minute” — P.T. Barnum
So what is you opinion about pink elephants... I mean victory of RFia? ;-P
Oh... and I have YET ONE truth-teller from/for RFia fer ya.
Go catch. Fransua Boke. He even survived through attempt to kill him. ;-P
\\\\And I am dreaming butterfly... :-)))))))))))
\\Farfalla vendetta!
I think... that this is staunch miscommunictation. Or... I just unable to phatome your blazing iriny.
My ref was to that story of one Chinese survivor of massacres (he would not be able to tell his story if he'd not survived, I suppose)
He tell, that in a moment of biggest struggle, that pushed his self-preservation instint to a brink... he started dreaming about being butterfly, to which came weird dream about being human...
https://www.google.com.ua/search?q=human+dreamin+being+butterfly
They say that many women surviving attacks by Janjaweed militias who killed all men and children dreamed the same dream... and survived. Only nobody wanted to hear their stories of rapes/ murders.
...they became very depressed and often suicidal afterwards.
And? What is the punch line here?
Or you setting it as biddhists koans for me to (not) understand?
Or... just the sam as me -- strugling to convey important(?) for you meanings... through so improper means as words...
Or... (place your variant here)
Sure. There is often no "justice" that will result from you "telling your story" (as a man or a "Life of Pi" Tiger). There is only the tragic "just is" that you have to live with And either your, or the tiger's, story will do. It's why there are still so many common myth's today.
I prefer Ben Franklin's approach to "war stories".
from "The First of May, A New Song in Praise of Saint Tammany
...As old age came on, he grew blind, deaf and dumb,
Tho' his sport ‘twere hard to keep from it,
Quite tired of life, bid adieu to his wife,
And blaz' d like the tail of a comit, my brave boys.
What country on earth, then did ever give birth,
To such a magnanimous saint?
His acts far excel all that history tell,
And language too feeble to paint, my brave boys.
Now to finish my song, a full flowing bowl;
I'll quaff' and sing the long day,
And with punch and wine paint my cheeks for my saint,
And hail ev'ry first of Sweet May, my brave boys."
:)
\\I prefer Ben Franklin's approach to "war stories".
Massacres... that is not war stories.
Captain Obvious at your service.
No, more like 'When The Legend Becomes Fact, Print The Legend,'
...and then just disappear.
So, what's your point, again?
:P
:P
:)
Don't be a farfalla vendetta butterfly! Let it Snow Go!
Misscommunication... it seems. :-(
Butterflies with Vendetta's aren't letting anything go. Ironic, huh?
The Butterfly Dream - The Philosophy Foundation
www.philosophy-foundation.org › view › the-b...
Chuang Tzu was a philosopher in ancient China, who, one night went to sleep and dreamed that he was a butterfly. He dreamt that he was flying around from flower ...
Beat me, but I cannot connect the dots between THIS
and that flick from Simpsons(tm). ;-P
Much less to see any irony.
Poor me. :-( sob-sob
Was Chuang Tzu dreaming of vengeance/ vengeful butterflies?
Or would that just be you, Q?
Nietzsche, "The Use and Abuse of History for Life"
"Late comers live truly an ironical existence".
\\\\Was Chuang Tzu dreaming of vengeance/ vengeful butterflies?
\\Or would that just be you, Q?
Your attempt to build up my "theory of mind" failed, it seems.
Like my of you.
That is what they call "miscommunication" mean. AFAIK.
But I can be wrong, of course.
\\Nietzsche, "The Use and Abuse of History for Life"
So, History DO NOT exist?
Or... there NO truth or anyhow truthful, even if it material evidances???
Or what?
PS I think I was careful, while possible not that masterful, with connecting dots in my screeds here.
Can I ask to show to me some of such courtesy in return?
Well, whatever. Slack it off at your discern.
When it comes to Russia/ Ukraine you do have a bias, and a reason for it. I have more "ironic distance" from the conflict. You are Pyle. I am Joker.
In other words, you're "too close".
"Fear is the mind killer"
History repeats, but not always in the same way.
\\Blogger Joe Conservative said...
When it comes to Russia/ Ukraine you do have a bias, and a reason for it. I have more "ironic distance" from the conflict. You are Pyle. I am Joker.
That is not problem with my bias.
Only with your lack of erudition.
That's all.
Well, that is not like I inclined to mentor you, or pass a blame, or whatever.
I just pointing to that obvious stumbling block in our conversations...
\\In other words, you're "too close".
No... I am too far.
To understand it, to see it from your POV.
Without explanations.
Well, that is my problem, not yours.
Thank you for being patient with me. ;-)
???
no comments?
What is there to say? Americans are said to be pragmatists. IMO, Ukraine has fallen for the words of our IC. But our IC has no legitimate authority to speak for the American people. So, Ukraine will suffer, and Ukrainians will die. I'm sorry. We are no longer in control of our IC. Politicians are no longer in control of our IC. The USIC is in control of them, and election cycles are few and far between.
As Tennyson said...
...There in a secret olive-glade I saw
Pallas Athene climbing from the bath
In anger; yet one glittering foot disturb’d
The lucid well; one snowy knee was prest
Against the margin flowers; a dreadful light
Came from her golden hair, her golden helm
And all her golden armor on the grass,
And from her virgin breast, and virgin eyes
Remaining fixt on mine, till mine grew dark
For ever, and I heard a voice that said
“Henceforth be blind, for thou hast seen too much,
And speak the truth that no man may believe.”
Son, in the hidden world of sight that lives
Behind this darkness, I behold her still
Beyond all work of those who carve the stone
Beyond all dreams of Godlike womanhood,
Ineffable beauty, out of whom, at a glance
And as it were, perforce, upon me flash’d
The power of prophesying—but to me
No power—so chain’d and coupled with the curse
Of blindness and their unbelief who heard
And heard not, when I spake of famine, plague
Shrine-shattering earthquake, fire, flood, thunderbolt,
And angers of the Gods for evil done
And expiation lack’d—no power on Fate
Theirs, or mine own! for when the crowd would roar
For blood, for war, whose issue was their doom,
To cast wise words among the multitude
Was flinging fruit to lions; nor, in hours
Of civil outbreak, when I knew the twain
Would each waste each, and bring on both the yoke
Of stronger states, was mine the voice to curb
The madness of our cities and their kings.
Who ever turn’d upon his heel to hear
My warning that the tyranny of one
Was prelude to the tyranny of all?
My counsel that the tyranny of all
Led backward to the tyranny of one?
This power hath work’d no good to aught that lives
And these blind hands were useless in their wars.
O therefore, that the unfulfill’d desire,
The grief for ever born from griefs to be
The boundless yearning of the prophet’s heart—
Could that stand forth, and like a statue, rear’d
To some great citizen, win all praise from all
Who past it, saying, “That was he!”
In vain!
Virtue must shape itself in deed, and those
Whom weakness or necessity have cramp’d
Within themselves, immerging, each, his urn
In his own well, draws solace as he may.
Menœceus, thou hast eyes, and I can hear
Too plainly what full tides of onset sap
Our seven high gates, and what a weight of war
Rides on those ringing axles! jingle of bits,
Shouts, arrows, tramp of the horn-footed horse
That grind the glebe to powder! Stony showers
Of that ear-stunning hail of Arês crash
Along the sounding walls. Above, below
Shock after shock, the song-built towers and gates
Reel, bruised and butted with the shuddering
War-thunder of iron rams; and from within
The city comes a murmur void of joy,
Lest she be taken captive—maidens, wives,
And mothers with their babblers of the dawn,
And oldest age in shadow from the night,
Falling about their shrines before their Gods,
And wailing, “Save us.”
And they wail to thee!
These eyeless eyes, that cannot see thine own,
See this, that only in thy virtue lies
The saving of our Thebes;...
The Ukrainian people chose democracy and self determination.
The Ukraining oligarchs chose suicide. The Ukrainian people are their Jonestown coolaid victims.
\\What is there to say?
That's... up to you to decide. I (and hardly anybody in the world... as for today) have brain capacity to imagine what would you say instead of you.
That's why conversations is still so damn puzzling and interesting
\\Americans are said to be pragmatists.
That can be prejudges. ;-)
\\IMO, Ukraine has fallen for the words of our IC.
Eeeee???? How?
\\But our IC has no legitimate authority to speak for the American people.
Whatever.
\\So, Ukraine will suffer, and Ukrainians will die.
...in a fight. As free men and women.
Bur well, again, far-far not that much as they was dying and could die while being slaves.
I dunno why this simple truth avoids your attention so much.
\\I'm sorry.
Like that is your fault.
I do not see how it can be.
Well, your higherups screwed it in some parts... but in comparation with... RFia for example -- that pledged "love and friendhip, and brotherhood"... and did, you know what yourself.
UA and USA was not even allies. Well, except for Budapesht Memorandum.
\\ We are no longer in control of our IC.
NMP.
\\ Politicians are no longer in control of our IC.
NMP.
Do you REALLY want it'll become problem of foreigners??? For them to try to fix it, instead of you??????
\\ The USIC is in control of them, and election cycles are few and far between.
\\As Tennyson said...
Sorry. I'm not into poetry in general.
And to phatome one in English... seems like still too early fer me. :-(
\\The Ukraining oligarchs chose suicide.
We already have discussed this.
And we did not agree neither about very definition -- who this "oligarchs" are?
Nor about their role.
\\ The Ukrainian people are their Jonestown coolaid victims.
That is what "soverenity and independence" of any nation stands for, isn't it?
\\What is there to say?
/That's why conversations is still so damn puzzling and interesting
...we often say what we think, instead of parroting the thoughts of 'others'.
\\IMO, Ukraine has fallen for the words of our IC.
/Eeeee???? How?
You think that we will support you, but when the going gets rough, you'll find yourselves alone. Look to Afghanistan. America has no "staying power". Our resolve waxes and wanes with election cycles. Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. And IC bureaucrats policies will blow with the winds, for they have a credo, "Always Cover Yer Ass". Zelenskyy will be their "fall guy".
\\So, Ukraine will suffer, and Ukrainians will die.
/...in a fight. As free men and women.
Bur well, again, far-far not that much as they was dying and could die while being slaves.
I dunno why this simple truth avoids your attention so much.
Isaiah Berlin, "Letter to George Kennan":
The whole of that morality, which is most prominent in the nineteenth century, in particular in the romantic period, but implicit in both Christian and Jewish writings, and far less present in the pagan world, rests on the view that it is a marvellous thing in itself when a man pits himself against the world, and sacrifices himself to an ideal without reckoning the consequences, even when we consider his ideal false and its consequences disastrous. We admire purity of motive as such, and think it a wonderful thing--or at any rate deeply impressive, perhaps to be fought but never despised--when somebody throws away material advantage, reputation etc. for the sake of bearing witness to something which he believes to be true, however mistaken and fanatical we may think him to be. I do not say that we worship passionate self-abandonment or automatically prefer a desperate fanaticism to moderation and enlightened self-interest. Of course not; yet nevertheless we do think such conduct deeply moving, even when misdirected. We admire it always more than calculation; we at least understand the kind of aesthetic splendour which all defiance has for some people--Carlyle, Nietzsche, Leontiev [Konstantin Nikolaevich Leontiev, nineteenth-century Russian philosopher and critic] and Fascists generally. We think that only those human beings are a credit to their kind who do not let themselves be pushed too far by the forces of nature or history, either passively or by glorying in their own impotence; and we idealise only those who have purposes for which they accept responsibility, on which they stake something, and at times everything; living consciously and bravely for whatever they think good, i.e. worth living and, in the last resort, dying for.
All this may seem an enormous platitude, but, if it is true, this is, of course, what ultimately refutes utilitarianism and what makes Hegel and Marx such monstrous traitors to our civilisation....
Continued... Ivan Karamazov cannot be totally exorcised; he speaks for us all, and this I take to be your point, and the foundation of your optimism. What I take you to say, and what I should have said myself if I had had the wit or the depth, is that the one thing which no utilitarian paradise, no promise of eternal harmony in the future within some vast organic whole will make us accept is the use of human beings as mere means--the doctoring of them until they are made to do what they do, not for the sake of the purposes which are their purposes, fulfilment of hopes which however foolish or desperate are at least their own, but for reasons which only we, the manipulators, who freely twist them for our purposes, can understand. What horrifies one about Soviet or Nazi practice is not merely the suffering and the cruelty, since although that is bad enough, it is something which history has produced too often, and to ignore its apparent inevitability is perhaps real Utopianism--no; what turns one inside out, and is indescribable, is the spectacle of one set of persons who so tamper and "get at" others that the others do their will without knowing what they are doing; and in this lose their status as free human beings, indeed as human beings at all.
\\I'm sorry.
/Like that is your fault.
I do not see how it can be.
Well, your higherups screwed it in some parts... but in comparation with... RFia for example -- that pledged "love and friendhip, and brotherhood"... and did, you know what yourself.
UA and USA was not even allies. Well, except for Budapesht Memorandum.
Which is why you'll end up under their "bus".
\\ We are no longer in control of our IC.
/NMP.
\\ Politicians are no longer in control of our IC.
/NMP.
It will become you problem. When we re-establish control (if ever), all support for Ukraine will vanish into thin air. You will not see another dollar spent upon Ukraines defense. As you have acknowledged, we have no treaty commitments to you that will be honoured. The groundwork establishing our "contractual" support has not been constructed.
Do you REALLY want it'll become problem of foreigners??? For them to try to fix it, instead of you??????
No. It's our responsibility, just as your dispute with Russia is yours.
\\As Tennyson said...
Sorry. I'm not into poetry in general.
And to phatome one in English... seems like still too early fer me. :-(
Hope springs eternal. :)
\\The Ukraining oligarchs chose suicide.
/We already have discussed this.
And we did not agree neither about very definition -- who this "oligarchs" are?
Nor about their role.
I use the term as Plato uses it in "Republic". Those with wealth and influence (but lacking in honour).
\\ The Ukrainian people are their Jonestown coolaid victims.
/That is what "soverenity and independence" of any nation stands for, isn't it?
Yes. But you are better off with Ukrainian independence and a Russian alliance for now. Our system of global capitalism (which your oligarch's seek to join) will soon fail "catastrophically". Those who have distanced themselves from it will best survive its' demise. We are in for hard times ahead when the world de-corporatizes and de-globalises. The price for continued economic "aggregate efficiencies" upon freedom and liberty will prove far to steep.
Sorry if this sounds too much like "prophesy" from an aging Tiresias.
\\\\IMO, Ukraine has fallen for the words of our IC.
/Eeeee???? How?
\\You think that we will support you, but when the going gets rough, you'll find yourselves alone.
Old news.
That was when Biden tryed to propose to Zelemsky to flee. While giving nothing more then a bunch of Javvelons and .5 ammo.
Today he gives Abramses. And preparing to give F-16s.
And to forsake Ukraine NOW -- will be ENORMOUS lose for USA. Lose you freakingly CANNOT afford. And your DC residents freakingly KNOW IT.
And what is more important -- YOUR ENEMIES KNOW IT.
\\Look to Afghanistan.
Pft. :-)))
Trump's "negotiations" with Un was much more important.
\\America has no "staying power". Our resolve waxes and wanes with election cycles. Success has many fathers, but failure is an orphan. And IC bureaucrats policies will blow with the winds, for they have a credo, "Always Cover Yer Ass". Zelenskyy will be their "fall guy".
That is LIFE und DEATH situation.
For USA.
Like it was for Britain in 1940. After their inavility to help France.
Ukraine is your France. TODAY.
Question is only... are your Biden -- Churchil, or still miserable Chemberlain???
\\Continued... Ivan Karamazov
Ehm???
\\Which is why you'll end up under their "bus".
You still do not know history of Ukraine.
\\It will become you problem.
Like when?
When World Global Government will emerge? :-)))
\\No. It's our responsibility, just as your dispute with Russia is yours.
Naah.
It's all YOUR, USA duty, my beauty. ;-P
Either this... or (un)conditional surrender. Tertium non datur.(tm)
For Ukraine... that is only question -- on which side to take part in ww3.
And choice is beyond obvious. Only on the side od West Ukraine have some chances to live.
Same as it was with Jews.
Did you know, that in the beginning, in Germany, there was ethnic Jews that tryed to became Nazis. They gone with a smoke FIRST.
\\I use the term as Plato uses it in "Republic". Those with wealth and influence (but lacking in honour).
Too vague.
As there always, in any society there is people who have more wealth and/or more influance.
Paradox of HEAP -- what amount of "oligarchs" is bad? Remember?
\\Yes. But you are better off with Ukrainian independence and a Russian alliance for now. Our system of global capitalism (which your oligarch's seek to join) will soon fail "catastrophically". Those who have distanced themselves from it will best survive its' demise. We are in for hard times ahead when the world de-corporatizes and de-globalises. The price for continued economic "aggregate efficiencies" upon freedom and liberty will prove far to steep.
\\Sorry if this sounds too much like "prophesy" from an aging Tiresias.
Hallo, we are in WW3 beginning chapters TODAY.
Not in some dream of hopster about World og Future.
No Ukraine is in beginning of Holodomor 2.0.
Your journalist's may have won Pulitzers in 2022. Just remember who won it in 1932, and for what.
\\No Ukraine is in beginning of Holodomor 2.0.
And how I can take your claims seriously. When you show that you do not know historical trivias that much.
Holodomor was result EXACTLY of that scenario YOU propose -- agree on "peace conditions" of Rusha.
Same as it was with Jews.
Did you know, that in the beginning, in Germany, there was ethnic Jews that tryed to became Nazis. They gone with a smoke FIRST.
This was no accident. Rather, it was part of a Nazi-led propaganda blitz called Operation Himmler, a ploy Tolischus bought without flinching. At that crucial moment, in the lead story of the New York Times’ edition for that day, Tolischus printed the entirety of Hitler’s speech to the Reichstag justifying his invasion of Poland. He reported not a single word of response by a Polish official.
Strange feeling... like I percieved something very similar. Recently.
And before too.
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