8 minutes in to the video and Ukraine is a *Nazi collaborator," as if the experience of the Holomodor and forced starvation of the Kulaks wasn't a thing that would turn them against Russia.
At least Oliver Stone was quick to peg my bullshit meter. I could have almost wasted an hour and a half. Yawn.
Finally, you can get back to your war porn on CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS and FOX... where the war in Ukraine has been simplified and dumbed down enough for you to really "understand" it. Russia bad!
Gotta go with Beamishderp on this one... "Ukraine on Fire" is a fiction film.
Wikipedia: Pavel Shekhtman, as published by the Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group, characterized Ukraine on Fire as "undistilled Kremlin propaganda".
The Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group (KhPG) is one of the oldest and most active Ukrainian human rights organizations. As a legal entity, it was established in 1992, but it has been working as a human rights protection group since 1988 under the Society "Memorial". The first official human rights organization in the former USSR. Many members of the organization took part in a human rights movement of the 1960s–1980s.
The protests were prompted by reports from several domestic and foreign election monitors as well as the widespread public perception that the results of the run-off vote of 21 November 2004 between leading candidates Viktor Yushchenko and Viktor Yanukovych were rigged by the authorities in favour of the latter.[8] The nationwide protests succeeded when the results of the original run-off were annulled, and a revote was ordered by Ukraine's Supreme Court for 26 December 2004. Under intense scrutiny by domestic and international observers, the second run-off was declared to be "free and fair". The final results showed a clear victory for Yushchenko, who received about 52% of the vote, compared to Yanukovych's 45%. Yushchenko was declared the official winner and with his inauguration on 23 January 2005 in Kyiv, the Orange Revolution ended. In the following years, the Orange Revolution had a negative connotation among pro-government circles in Belarus and Russia.[9][10][11][12]
In the 2010 presidential election, Yanukovych became Yushchenko's successor as President of Ukraine after the Central Election Commission and international observers declared that the presidential election was conducted fairly.[13] Yanukovych was ousted from power four years later following the February 2014 Euromaidan clashes in Kyiv's Independence Square. Unlike the bloodless Orange Revolution, these protests resulted in more than 100 deaths, occurring mostly between 18 and 20 February 2014.
Sounds like the CIA's man in Ukraine really cleaned up...
Manafort's involvement in Ukraine can be traced to 2003, when Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska hired Dole, Manafort's prior campaign candidate, to lobby the State Department for a waiver of his visa ban, primarily so that he could solicit otherwise unavailable institutional purchasers for shares in his company, RusAL. Then in early 2004, Deripaska met with Manafort's partner, Rick Davis, also a prior campaign adviser to Bob Dole, to discuss hiring Manafort and Davis to return the former Georgian Minister of State Security, Igor Giorgadze, to prominence in Georgian politics.
By December 2004, however, Deripaska shelved his plans in Georgia and dispatched Manafort to meet with Akhmetov in Ukraine to help Akhmetov and his holding firm, System Capital Management, weather the political crisis brought by the Orange Revolution. Akhmetov would eventually flee to Monaco after being accused of murder, but during the crisis Manafort shepherded Akhemtov around Washington, meeting with U.S. officials like Dick Cheney. Akhmetov introduced Manafort to Yanukovych, to whose political party, the Party of Regions, Akhmetov was a contributor.
Lobbying for Viktor Yanukovych and involvements in Ukraine
Manafort worked as an adviser on the Ukrainian presidential campaign of Yanukovych (and his Party of Regions during the same time span) from December 2004 until the February 2010 Ukrainian presidential election, even as the U.S. government (and U.S. Senator John McCain) opposed Yanukovych because of his ties to Russia's leader Vladimir Putin. Manafort was hired[by whom?] to advise Yanukovych months after massive street demonstrations known as the Orange Revolution overturned Yanukovych's victory in the 2004 presidential race. Borys Kolesnikov, Yanukovych's campaign manager, said the party hired Manafort after identifying organizational and other problems in the 2004 elections, in which it was advised by Russian strategists. Manafort rebuffed U.S. Ambassador William B. Taylor Jr. when the latter complained he was undermining U.S. interests in Ukraine. According to a 2008 U.S. Justice Department annual report, Manafort's company received $63,750 from Yanukovych's Party of Regions over a six-month period ending on March 31, 2008, for consulting services. In the 2010 election, Yanukovych managed to pull off a narrow win over Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, a leader of the 2004 demonstrations. Yanukovych owed his comeback in Ukraine's presidential election to a drastic makeover of his political persona, and—people in his party say—that makeover was engineered in part by his American consultant, Manafort.
(cont) In 2007 and 2008, Manafort was involved in investment projects with Deripaska—the acquisition of a Ukrainian telecommunications company—and Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash—redevelopment of the site of the former Drake Hotel in New York City). Manafort negotiated a $10 million annual contract with Deripaska to promote Russian interests in politics, business, and media coverage in Europe and the United States, starting in 2005.[95] A witness at Manafort's 2018 trial for fraud and tax evasion testified that Deripaska loaned Manafort $10 million in 2010, which to her knowledge was never repaid.
At Manafort's trial, federal prosecutors alleged that between 2010 and 2014 he was paid more than $60 million by Ukrainian sponsors, including Akhmetov, believed to be the richest man in Ukraine.
In May 2011, Yanukovych stated that he would strive for Ukraine to join the European Union, In 2013, Yanukovych became the main target of the Euromaidan protests. After the February 2014 Ukrainian revolution (the conclusion of Euromaidan), Yanukovych fled to Russia.[97][98] On March 17, 2014, the day after the Crimean status referendum, Yanukovych became one of the first eleven persons who were placed under executive sanctions on the Specially Designated Nationals List (SDN) by President Barack Obama, freezing his assets in the US and banning him from entering the United States.
Manafort then returned to Ukraine in September 2014 to become an adviser to Yanukovych's former head of the Presidential Administration of Ukraine Serhiy Lyovochkin.[89] In this role, he was asked to assist in rebranding Yanukovych's Party of Regions. Instead, he argued to help stabilize Ukraine. Manafort was instrumental in creating a new political party called Opposition Bloc.[89] According to Ukrainian political analyst Mikhail Pogrebinsky, "He thought to gather the largest number of people opposed to the current government, you needed to avoid anything concrete, and just become a symbol of being opposed". According to Manafort, he has not worked in Ukraine since the October 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election. However, according to Ukrainian border control entry data, Manafort traveled to Ukraine several times after that election, all the way through late 2015.[111] According to The New York Times, his local office in Ukraine closed in May 2016. According to Politico, by then Opposition Bloc had already stopped payments for Manafort and this local office.
You seem to believe foreign countries have a right to complain about their governments being replaced by the United States, a right that does not appear in the US Constitution.
The concerns of these savages must pass through the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Who wants to run a casino?
By right of superior irredentist claim, the Osage of Missouri want all lands between Karelia and Vladivostok returned to them, because their ancestors fled them over the Bering Strait 65,000 years ago.
Question: Is there any credible evidence that Ukraine's 2014 revolution was due to a CIA coup?
Answer: The claims are coming from Putin's advisers who threatened to invade Ukraine. However, there's a problem with this stance - Ukraine protesters did not need significant funds and had very few weapons, mostly self-made Molotov cocktails, and absolutely no heavy weapons or even machine guns. Their actions were fairly chaotic, but when 300,000 people pour on the streets, little can be done in response. In the meantime, no CIA agents were documented in Kiev - Russia would have advertised such evidence if there was any.
Evidence, like tape recordings of US officials deciding the future holders of top positions in Ukrainian government? How about the president's wife being a US citizen and former US State Department official? Your not paying attention Dervy. Go back to sleep.
So this blind guy sits in a restaurant and the waiter asks him if he'd like to see a menu. The blind guy replied, "No, just bring me a dirty fork and I'll smell it and order what I smell."
So the waiter leaves and comes back with a dirty fork and the blind guy sniffs it. "Ah," the blind man says, "I'll have the lasagna al forno with Caesar salad."
The next week, the blind man returns to the restaurant, and requests another dirty fork to smell. The waiter can't believe the blind man's sense of smell is that good so he goes in the back and has a waitress rub a fork all over her crotch.
The waiter gives the fork to the blind man who smells it and says...
Yanukovych's party and administration stayed in their seats when he fled to Russia. They had no small part in his removal and subsequent fleeing either. After that, they were voted out.
Yanukovych was a scumbag. Why do you think he needed a "political makeover" from Manafort in the first place?
He's an oligarch. In 2004, Putin poisoned his opponent, Yushchenko, and made him look "dirty". The image makeover from Manafort got him elected in 2010.
Manafort was hired to advise Yanukovych months after massive street demonstrations known as the Orange Revolution overturned Yanukovych's victory in the 2004 presidential race. Borys Kolesnikov, Yanukovych's campaign manager, said the party hired Manafort after identifying organizational and other problems in the 2004 elections, in which it was advised by Russian strategists. Manafort rebuffed U.S. Ambassador William B. Taylor Jr. when the latter complained he was undermining U.S. interests in Ukraine. According to a 2008 U.S. Justice Department annual report, Manafort's company received $63,750 from Yanukovych's Party of Regions over a six-month period ending on March 31, 2008, for consulting services. In the 2010 election, Yanukovych managed to pull off a narrow win over Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, a leader of the 2004 demonstrations. Yanukovych owed his comeback in Ukraine's presidential election to a drastic makeover of his political persona, and—people in his party say—that makeover was engineered in part by his American consultant, Manafort.
In 2007 and 2008, Manafort was involved in investment projects with Deripaska—the acquisition of a Ukrainian telecommunications company—and Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash—redevelopment of the site of the former Drake Hotel in New York City). Manafort negotiated a $10 million annual contract with Deripaska to promote Russian interests in politics, business, and media coverage in Europe and the United States, starting in 2005. A witness at Manafort's 2018 trial for fraud and tax evasion testified that Deripaska loaned Manafort $10 million in 2010, which to her knowledge was never repaid.
At Manafort's trial, federal prosecutors alleged that between 2010 and 2014 he was paid more than $60 million by Ukrainian sponsors, including Akhmetov, believed to be the richest man in Ukraine.
46 comments:
8 minutes in to the video and Ukraine is a *Nazi collaborator," as if the experience of the Holomodor and forced starvation of the Kulaks wasn't a thing that would turn them against Russia.
At least Oliver Stone was quick to peg my bullshit meter. I could have almost wasted an hour and a half. Yawn.
Finally, you can get back to your war porn on CNN, MSNBC, NBC, ABC, CBS and FOX... where the war in Ukraine has been simplified and dumbed down enough for you to really "understand" it. Russia bad!
Well, at least your head won't hurt anymore.
I understand that Oliver Stone makes fiction films. This one sucks.
Yeah, even Jussie Smollett usually does a MUCH better job!
Is it a real hate crime? Or is it Memorex? Only the "experts" can tell the difference.
Gotta go with Beamishderp on this one... "Ukraine on Fire" is a fiction film.
Wikipedia: Pavel Shekhtman, as published by the Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group, characterized Ukraine on Fire as "undistilled Kremlin propaganda".
The Kharkiv Human Rights Protection Group (KhPG) is one of the oldest and most active Ukrainian human rights organizations. As a legal entity, it was established in 1992, but it has been working as a human rights protection group since 1988 under the Society "Memorial". The first official human rights organization in the former USSR. Many members of the organization took part in a human rights movement of the 1960s–1980s.
You'd think a "documentary" of the removal of Yanukovych would at least take a tour of his house, aka the "Museum of Corruption."
I wonder which gold leaf table there was used by Paul Manafort's FSB handlers to sign his paychecks.
The CIAs 2004 "Color Revolution" almost certainly put Paul Manafort into his place in Ukraine.
Our CIA in action...
Nature, like democracy, abhorr's a Soviet collapse power vacuum.
The protests were prompted by reports from several domestic and foreign election monitors as well as the widespread public perception that the results of the run-off vote of 21 November 2004 between leading candidates Viktor Yushchenko and Viktor Yanukovych were rigged by the authorities in favour of the latter.[8] The nationwide protests succeeded when the results of the original run-off were annulled, and a revote was ordered by Ukraine's Supreme Court for 26 December 2004. Under intense scrutiny by domestic and international observers, the second run-off was declared to be "free and fair". The final results showed a clear victory for Yushchenko, who received about 52% of the vote, compared to Yanukovych's 45%. Yushchenko was declared the official winner and with his inauguration on 23 January 2005 in Kyiv, the Orange Revolution ended. In the following years, the Orange Revolution had a negative connotation among pro-government circles in Belarus and Russia.[9][10][11][12]
In the 2010 presidential election, Yanukovych became Yushchenko's successor as President of Ukraine after the Central Election Commission and international observers declared that the presidential election was conducted fairly.[13] Yanukovych was ousted from power four years later following the February 2014 Euromaidan clashes in Kyiv's Independence Square. Unlike the bloodless Orange Revolution, these protests resulted in more than 100 deaths, occurring mostly between 18 and 20 February 2014.
Viktor Yushchenko (D) or Viktor Yanukovych (R)
Think that the CIA really overly cared which one won?
Russia did though... Viktor Yushchenko was poisoned by the KGB...
...unless you can buy into the Russia's "agent provocateur" story.
Sounds like the CIA's man in Ukraine really cleaned up...
Manafort's involvement in Ukraine can be traced to 2003, when Russian oligarch Oleg Deripaska hired Dole, Manafort's prior campaign candidate, to lobby the State Department for a waiver of his visa ban, primarily so that he could solicit otherwise unavailable institutional purchasers for shares in his company, RusAL. Then in early 2004, Deripaska met with Manafort's partner, Rick Davis, also a prior campaign adviser to Bob Dole, to discuss hiring Manafort and Davis to return the former Georgian Minister of State Security, Igor Giorgadze, to prominence in Georgian politics.
By December 2004, however, Deripaska shelved his plans in Georgia and dispatched Manafort to meet with Akhmetov in Ukraine to help Akhmetov and his holding firm, System Capital Management, weather the political crisis brought by the Orange Revolution. Akhmetov would eventually flee to Monaco after being accused of murder, but during the crisis Manafort shepherded Akhemtov around Washington, meeting with U.S. officials like Dick Cheney. Akhmetov introduced Manafort to Yanukovych, to whose political party, the Party of Regions, Akhmetov was a contributor.
Lobbying for Viktor Yanukovych and involvements in Ukraine
Manafort worked as an adviser on the Ukrainian presidential campaign of Yanukovych (and his Party of Regions during the same time span) from December 2004 until the February 2010 Ukrainian presidential election, even as the U.S. government (and U.S. Senator John McCain) opposed Yanukovych because of his ties to Russia's leader Vladimir Putin. Manafort was hired[by whom?] to advise Yanukovych months after massive street demonstrations known as the Orange Revolution overturned Yanukovych's victory in the 2004 presidential race. Borys Kolesnikov, Yanukovych's campaign manager, said the party hired Manafort after identifying organizational and other problems in the 2004 elections, in which it was advised by Russian strategists. Manafort rebuffed U.S. Ambassador William B. Taylor Jr. when the latter complained he was undermining U.S. interests in Ukraine. According to a 2008 U.S. Justice Department annual report, Manafort's company received $63,750 from Yanukovych's Party of Regions over a six-month period ending on March 31, 2008, for consulting services. In the 2010 election, Yanukovych managed to pull off a narrow win over Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, a leader of the 2004 demonstrations. Yanukovych owed his comeback in Ukraine's presidential election to a drastic makeover of his political persona, and—people in his party say—that makeover was engineered in part by his American consultant, Manafort.
(cont)
In 2007 and 2008, Manafort was involved in investment projects with Deripaska—the acquisition of a Ukrainian telecommunications company—and Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash—redevelopment of the site of the former Drake Hotel in New York City). Manafort negotiated a $10 million annual contract with Deripaska to promote Russian interests in politics, business, and media coverage in Europe and the United States, starting in 2005.[95] A witness at Manafort's 2018 trial for fraud and tax evasion testified that Deripaska loaned Manafort $10 million in 2010, which to her knowledge was never repaid.
At Manafort's trial, federal prosecutors alleged that between 2010 and 2014 he was paid more than $60 million by Ukrainian sponsors, including Akhmetov, believed to be the richest man in Ukraine.
In May 2011, Yanukovych stated that he would strive for Ukraine to join the European Union, In 2013, Yanukovych became the main target of the Euromaidan protests. After the February 2014 Ukrainian revolution (the conclusion of Euromaidan), Yanukovych fled to Russia.[97][98] On March 17, 2014, the day after the Crimean status referendum, Yanukovych became one of the first eleven persons who were placed under executive sanctions on the Specially Designated Nationals List (SDN) by President Barack Obama, freezing his assets in the US and banning him from entering the United States.
Manafort then returned to Ukraine in September 2014 to become an adviser to Yanukovych's former head of the Presidential Administration of Ukraine Serhiy Lyovochkin.[89] In this role, he was asked to assist in rebranding Yanukovych's Party of Regions. Instead, he argued to help stabilize Ukraine. Manafort was instrumental in creating a new political party called Opposition Bloc.[89] According to Ukrainian political analyst Mikhail Pogrebinsky, "He thought to gather the largest number of people opposed to the current government, you needed to avoid anything concrete, and just become a symbol of being opposed". According to Manafort, he has not worked in Ukraine since the October 2014 Ukrainian parliamentary election. However, according to Ukrainian border control entry data, Manafort traveled to Ukraine several times after that election, all the way through late 2015.[111] According to The New York Times, his local office in Ukraine closed in May 2016. According to Politico, by then Opposition Bloc had already stopped payments for Manafort and this local office.
Nothing says "American capitalism" like wealthy oligarch's and corrupt politicians.
You seem to believe foreign countries have a right to complain about their governments being replaced by the United States, a right that does not appear in the US Constitution.
The concerns of these savages must pass through the Bureau of Indian Affairs. Who wants to run a casino?
The United States will no longer accept the Russian tribes beads and buffalo skins for payment. They must starve.
By right of superior irredentist claim, the Osage of Missouri want all lands between Karelia and Vladivostok returned to them, because their ancestors fled them over the Bering Strait 65,000 years ago.
I hereby cede the argument to your superior logic.
There is DNA evidence lol
@beamish - I think your SuperEgo just kicked the sh*t out of my Ego Ideal!
Palingenetic Ultraglobalism :)
...but I'm still trying to figure how f*cking Sarah Palin leads to ultraglobalism.
...okay, maybe not.
Well, with ultraglobalism, you have to lean really hard into the right-wing definition of globalism, so that it can mean anything.
Question: Is there any credible evidence that Ukraine's 2014 revolution was due to a CIA coup?
Answer: The claims are coming from Putin's advisers who threatened to invade Ukraine. However, there's a problem with this stance - Ukraine protesters did not need significant funds and had very few weapons, mostly self-made Molotov cocktails, and absolutely no heavy weapons or even machine guns. Their actions were fairly chaotic, but when 300,000 people pour on the streets, little can be done in response. In the meantime, no CIA agents were documented in Kiev - Russia would have advertised such evidence if there was any.
Evidence? Bah! The great Russian scientist Trifim Lysenko proved evidence is a capitalist tool to monopolize the truth.
Give this man some Polonium tea.
Evidence, like tape recordings of US officials deciding the future holders of top positions in Ukrainian government? How about the president's wife being a US citizen and former US State Department official? Your not paying attention Dervy. Go back to sleep.
Grow up.
Good thing Biden decided to "stick the deets", huh?
CIA may noy have "plotted" the coup, but State certainly shaped, rubber stamped, and then cemented in the after effects.
Why wouldn't they? I know you hate it, but US policy is that we support democracy.
So this blind guy sits in a restaurant and the waiter asks him if he'd like to see a menu. The blind guy replied, "No, just bring me a dirty fork and I'll smell it and order what I smell."
So the waiter leaves and comes back with a dirty fork and the blind guy sniffs it. "Ah," the blind man says, "I'll have the lasagna al forno with Caesar salad."
The next week, the blind man returns to the restaurant, and requests another dirty fork to smell. The waiter can't believe the blind man's sense of smell is that good so he goes in the back and has a waitress rub a fork all over her crotch.
The waiter gives the fork to the blind man who smells it and says...
"Ah, I didn't know the CIA worked here."
US policy is that we support democracy
Maidan was an example of democracy? The phone call was to set up the BALLOT for the emergency votes NECESSITATED by the coup.
Reminds me a wood expert who smelled a sample and replied, "the outhouse door on a tuna boat."
...or the pussy flavored ice cream cone that tasted like sh*t until you flipped it 180.
Yanukovych's party and administration stayed in their seats when he fled to Russia. They had no small part in his removal and subsequent fleeing either. After that, they were voted out.
Yanukovych was a scumbag. Why do you think he needed a "political makeover" from Manafort in the first place?
:P
Ever see Beauty and the Beast?
He's an oligarch. In 2004, Putin poisoned his opponent, Yushchenko, and made him look "dirty". The image makeover from Manafort got him elected in 2010.
...His lifestyle, and rejection of EU overtures, got him canned by the Maidan revolution.
Manafort was hired to advise Yanukovych months after massive street demonstrations known as the Orange Revolution overturned Yanukovych's victory in the 2004 presidential race. Borys Kolesnikov, Yanukovych's campaign manager, said the party hired Manafort after identifying organizational and other problems in the 2004 elections, in which it was advised by Russian strategists. Manafort rebuffed U.S. Ambassador William B. Taylor Jr. when the latter complained he was undermining U.S. interests in Ukraine. According to a 2008 U.S. Justice Department annual report, Manafort's company received $63,750 from Yanukovych's Party of Regions over a six-month period ending on March 31, 2008, for consulting services. In the 2010 election, Yanukovych managed to pull off a narrow win over Prime Minister Yulia Tymoshenko, a leader of the 2004 demonstrations. Yanukovych owed his comeback in Ukraine's presidential election to a drastic makeover of his political persona, and—people in his party say—that makeover was engineered in part by his American consultant, Manafort.
In 2007 and 2008, Manafort was involved in investment projects with Deripaska—the acquisition of a Ukrainian telecommunications company—and Ukrainian oligarch Dmytro Firtash—redevelopment of the site of the former Drake Hotel in New York City). Manafort negotiated a $10 million annual contract with Deripaska to promote Russian interests in politics, business, and media coverage in Europe and the United States, starting in 2005. A witness at Manafort's 2018 trial for fraud and tax evasion testified that Deripaska loaned Manafort $10 million in 2010, which to her knowledge was never repaid.
At Manafort's trial, federal prosecutors alleged that between 2010 and 2014 he was paid more than $60 million by Ukrainian sponsors, including Akhmetov, believed to be the richest man in Ukraine.
Viktor Yushchenko, the opponent poisoned in 2004, was married to a US citizen and former DoS official.
As Schumer said, "the IC's got a million ways of biting you back if you 'f with them."
He got his back in 2014.
How much influence does your wife have over your employer's policies or you over hers?
There's not even a molehill to make a mountain out of that line of reasoning.
:)
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